View Full Version : League Games this weekend
Cannot be delayed, as there are other people's schedules to consider, such as all the people who have worked for the 2sqyad league, coogers league etc. Sorry, but there ya go
So, we can play the games on saturday or sunday. All Squadrons that wish to play on the saturday can do so, providing all the other teams agree. Otherwise the games go ahead on Sunday.
Very sorry about this, but the leagues are now too big to be delayed like this. Cooger's league MUST be over by the start of the 2 squad, as matches for that compeition happen on 6 days of the week
Ems
thanx for that ems...and mine WILL be over a week or so before urs start :)
thats what i said about the KO finishing b4 september.....
:)
IJ
XRobList
04-09-2000, 17:20
yea, leagues too big now to keep moving it around :E
RED KITE
04-09-2000, 19:25
Sorry, but it was agreed last week that matches would be re done. On that basis some peps have now made arrangements for travelling to Duxford, and booked acommadation.
The Duxford date has been known for some considerable time now, and in all fairness allowance should have been made for this special Battle of Britain anniversary.
http://forums.gameplay.com/showthread.php?threadid=172262
I have already apologised. It cannot be moved there are too man yother things going on, sorry.
[TSQN] Fu11
04-09-2000, 19:34
<will not be going to duxford now>
hate this ****ing game sometimes.
i should leave, no wait, i tried that.. :E
RED KITE
04-09-2000, 19:37
But Emms you just cant say yes one minute and no the next, people need to be able to organise themselves, without chopping and changing decisions. :)
Besides, matches were put back for the last Duxford meet if memory serves me correctly, why not this one, which is after all more significantly special. :)
Have the 2 Squad fixtures even been finalised yet??!
I mean, aren't we talking like one week here? Surely you can see that it is common sense to move Sunday's games?
This is a crazy decision, so many people have committed to go to Duxford now - I would have thought something like the air show get-together was for the good of the community and should be encouraged.
It's not good enough to say there are too many other things to consider, and tough luck everybody. And then to say "oh, but you can move it to Saturday or another time Sunday". Cor, thanks!
This is a mental decisions, please, please, please have a rethink.
Wraith Ed
04-09-2000, 20:00
As someone who is totally unbiased by this, not going to Duxford OR partaking in games this weekend, Id just like to offer my views on this:
Even tho I can tototally understand Ems POV on this, admin can be a nightmare, and it takes ages to re-arrange fixtures etc..., this Duxford thing has been coming for weeks, months now, and its not like u havent had warning to change this about Ems. Also its not the end of the world if things shift back a bit, perhaps we could arange weekday playing of 1 or 2 of Coogers league games, whatever, Im sure we are all flexible to some capacity.
AA players stand a good chance of being ww2 fanatics, its an occupational hazard, something like this is really important to some people and represents a milestone in the fanatics calendar, its sorta like asking a priest to play at Christmas.
Also the point has been made that u did give them the distinct impression that things would be moving about for them so its not nice to go back on urself there. Im not saying u should back down here Ems at all, but I think its not really very fair to refuse point blank to negotiate on this thing here IMHO.
Surely some knd of compromise here yeah? :smokin:
[TSQN] Fu11
04-09-2000, 20:05
probably the first thing you've ever, ever said i've read and gone "yeah!" to, Wraith Ed.
:)
however, i've now spent the money i was going to use on going to Duxford, on a new modem..
then you go and change your minds back, *******s, the lot of you..
:E
Ok, let me lay it on the line, and please read this carefully, as I am tired of repeating myself this evening.
The 4Squad fixture shave been available for viewing for 6 months
The 2 Squad fixture shave been available for viewing for 6 weeks
The 2 squad has been designed to fit around xmas, and cannot be moved without postponing it by 3 months as it would have to start after the xmas / new year break.
There are exactly two weeks between the end of the 4 squad and the beginning of the 2 squad. A league has been designed by cooger to fit into this space. Postponing the 4squad by a week would mean abandoning that league, and all his hard work.
In other words, we DO NOT make these decisions just to piss you off. Many peopl ehave worked damn long and hard to create a steady stream of competitions and tournaments. This steady stream is now operating under a very tight deadline and can no longer be messed around with in this fashion.
When the community consisted of a dozen squads we could delay the leagues as loing as we liked. Now there in excess of 30 squads being organised by a team of over 30 lm's and referees. these people have worked damn hard to make sure you have fun. I am not going to ask them to throw away all that work just becuase some cannot bring themselves to look at fixtures which have been freely available to all since april.
I sympathise with the sentiments, and god knows ill be in duxford myself, but it is no longer the case that we can just put the league on hold. There are too many other things happening.
Please. Play the matches during the week. All 2squad matches are happinging monday - saturday anyway!. Ill mail all squadrons tonight with this information and try to get them sorted. I understand that TSQWN has already made a suggesion, and would urge other squadrons to dso the same
Sgt H0MER
04-09-2000, 21:52
Can you answer the allegation that when Targets found out I was going to Duxford they pressed you to have their game played in my absence, so they may stand a chance of winning? :)
Sgt Homer, [Targets]M
im with ems...not becuase i have my comp in there.....but i know how much time and work i put into my comp getting it all sorted fixtures and all nad anoying rocky until he chucked his comp out the window...and other people like ems and ij etc work there socks off...and they have bigger things to run than me.....so im sticking by ems on this sorry but she hasa point i know u lot have payed etc but im sure somethink can be arranged some how. :)
i support em's for no reason other than the fact that she is part of the clique :E
11 of 12
One thing that really winds me up is people who will not let you make a mistake. I did intend to do the fixtures. But I chatted to a few people and realised I couldnt do it as there was so much else going on.
I got it wrong, and am going back on it. It may not be nice, or acceptable to some of you, but whern i make a mistake i will admit it and sort it out. thats what I am doing
I apologise for my comments stating I would redone the fixtures. I didnt think it through properly.
Emily
[ODT] Red One
05-09-2000, 02:08
Originally posted by Ems
I apologise for my comments stating I would redone the fixtures. I didnt think it through properly.
Emily
what you sayin about me :E
no serioulsey tho i agree and as a divisional LM myself i know how much work has gone into the fixtures by myself the other guys an especially ems, and i think i speak for all of us when i say that i am not prepared to re do them.
'Johnnie' Johnson
05-09-2000, 07:41
Originally posted by Ems
The 4Squad fixture shave been available for viewing for 6 months
Unfortunately the Special Events organiser at Duxford couldn't be arsed to read it. Some people, tsk tsk.
[TSQN] Fu11
05-09-2000, 08:01
LOL! :)
there are some inconsiderate souls round aren't there :laugh:
If all CO's can agree a suitable alternative prior to sunday, then do it. The onus is on the CO's in question, not the LM.
I would prefer our match not to be saturday or sunday tbh, but I'll have to go with the flow.....plus I cannot say too much as it's a bit of a conflict of interest for me. Big game for Tempests you see. Oh well. :(
[TSQN] Fu11
05-09-2000, 08:36
i'm not going to duxford, in order to be ready formy lovely tornado people :E
might pop along to biggin hill the weekend after, i'm down that way anwyays :)
[TSQN] Budgie
05-09-2000, 08:58
Fair enough Ems - youve stated your reasons and they're fair, the 2Squad league has taken a sh!t load of work to get ready - the Div league managers have had to do a teeny tiny peice of it and to start re-arranging now would be a total nightmare and impact on a lot more ppl than it apears on ths surface.
One question though are we ok to re-arrange this Sundays games for this week or next week (deadline next Saturday at the latest say to prevent clogging up the servers next Sunday.
Im probably talking utter tosh etc but im still on my first cuppa of the day so apologies if ive repeated the same stuff as others.
RED KITE
05-09-2000, 09:43
Well i HAVE read all the above, and i'm genuinely astounded and saddened that the priority here seems to be a virtual game and not for those that fought and died for us.
This IS not aimed at any one individual.........Duxford means different things to different people, old and young alike. To some its pure nostalgia, to others it's a place to become more aware of the facets of war, to many its a place to pay homage and show respect for those who fought and died for us in the REAL WORLD.
To think that those of us who are playing/organising a virtual ww2 game, cannot for one weekend put aside their quest, is to say the least, disrespectful, and thats putting it mildly.
whilst i accept that i'm very ignorant of the organisation in regards to matches, i none the less find it hard to understand why so much has been jammed in, that there is now no leeway for important events such as Duxford.
Where there is a will to do something, there is a way, and clearly there is no will here by those who organise, and yet it would take so little compared to the ww2 pilots who did so much for US !
I don't understand why we need to have such a constant stream of competitions. Personally, the thought of having a few weeks without matches is a nice one, it's hard work keeping the squadron going, getting people along to matches, etc. A break from that would be nice, and I imagine other COs may agree.
I am, in part, relieved the 4Squad League is nearly over, but then the thought of the 2Squad starting almost straight after it is a bit much.
Sometimes, this game is not fun, it's just an effort. I think we are actually doing too much here, but I guess most AA players wouldn't agree with me, so fair enough :).
I'm sorry Ems, I appreciate what you're saying, and what you have to do, but this is all very late in the day and I don't like the way we're told "tough luck, get on with it".
Which, of course, we will.
Phillie Time
05-09-2000, 11:18
What time will ppl be back from Duxford ???
Cause personally I can't make any other day this weekend but sunday....
Can't we just reschedule this for 10PM on sunday ?
[Edited by Phillie Time on 05-09-2000 at 11:20 AM]
SonicYoof
05-09-2000, 11:50
ooh eck..
could do with some input from 616 and TNT here (MarkyB, where are you?)
I do agree with RedKite and Smudger to some extent about the importance of Duxford, but we have to play the game this weekend, so we'll make do.
Phillie, sunday at 10pm seems like as good a time as any - TNT? 616?
To those who organise leagues:
In future can we have a gap between leagues? a month minimum. Otherwise there is no build up, no anticipation and no chance to practice the different tactics required for 2 squad as opposed to 4 squad.
Please?????
Besides, people will get fed up with playing endless league matches.
I am not impressed at all!
The games were going to be postponed, then at the 11th hour after we have all spent money on the tickets/accomodation, you tell us the games HAVE TO BE PLAYED!
Fair enough, re-arranging the games is going to be a nightmare, but i think there was enough notice of this event, now if the games go ahead as planned your gonna have half full teams (if your lucky)(or full in the case of guardians who never leave their bedrooms :p )
I just think this is waaaaaaaaaay out of order!!!!
I know for a fact that most ( 80% ) of TSQN are going to be there.
:(
I think Ems is right, the fixtures have been known about for long enough.
If u wanna go to Duxford, then go. If u wanna play ur match, then play it (as-is or rearranged). Make ur choice, you can't have everything.
Btw showing up at Duxford is not the only way to show ur respects to the ppl who fought for us.
:cry:
I will be going to Duxford. This will be leaving my team totally in the lurch (no Command staff at all).
Yoof i'm more than happy to move the game back to 10pm, could you mail me please. (markyb@markyb.co.uk) unless I catch you in IRC
Marky
[Edited by Marky B on 05-09-2000 at 12:22 PM]
well ill be playing our games on sunday if targets and those people will to :)
I take it your not going then PAZZI, and have not spent a bloody fortune on the tickets? Oh i would love to stay home and play the match, but then i gotta explain myself to the G/F and kidz. Thanks!
I agree with Pazzi,it's only 1 match,not life and death if you miss it,everything just doesn't stop because a few are going to Duxford.I'd go to Duxford if i had the chance Stace,but i will miss matches with holiday to Canada,work,college in the future,thats how life goes,it stinks,but we carry on.
Blade
ok I admit it - I'm not going to Duxford - so I should should stay out of this thread I know!
I guess what I meant was, like Blade said, life is just a series of priorities, one after another.
It is not as if you get a full 40 pilots per game when Duxford isn't on, is it? Thats because sometimes ppl have other priorities!
And if the matches aren't/can't be rearranged, so what if a few games are thin on the ground - it's not the end of the world!
I guess that if there are ppl out there going to Duxford who have NEVER MISSED AN AA MATCH, EVER, they they can, with credibility, tell me to take a hike, otherwise we are all guilty of sometimes putting other things in our lives before Air Attack (OMG - say it aint so!).
:{
Dark Dave
05-09-2000, 15:48
Yeah Blade, but when you leave for Holidays you`re just one person and the team should be able to manage, When a Duxford event happens some whole teams go so there is no chance of the match reflecting the teams normal play.
Anyway I`ll be trying to rearrange Elites game.
can i just ask how many people are going to duxford?
RED KITE
05-09-2000, 16:08
I accept PAZZI that there are other ways to show ones own individual respect and admiration, but show me where one can do it collectively as a community, in person, offline, and amongst friends and family.
No i'm sorry but this is one date in the real-life calendar, that should have been set aside months ago as a weekend when matches would not be played.
Coogs m8 :), your clearly biased, no offence meant m8.
mmm i suppose i do seem that way as im not going.. :(
i do know what u mean though...u paying alot of money for travel and accomondation and setting aside other plans u may have with ur family and friends...so im sorry if i sound that i dont care..i do m8.....its just me opinion :)
but how many people are going ...just wondering like :)
oh and none taken red kite ;)
SonicYoof
05-09-2000, 16:42
Riiight.. before this gets out of hand....
I've spoken to MarkyB (TNT) and Phillie Time (Tempests) who have both agreed on Sunday at 10pm - 616... that ok?
/me looks for JJ :E
PAH, b4 this gets outta hand.................Not worried about the day out / match anymore.
Just shows what people think now! We arrange a meet, probably the biggest AA meet ever, and matches which were going to be re-arranged are suddenly back on !!!!!
Jesus, was there not enough warning of this event, we`ve been going on about this for months now!
I doubt this post will even be read by the "clique" as i`m not part of it (e-mail mac? no comment?).
Not amused still!!!!
:(
Stace
Skeleton
05-09-2000, 20:30
Pazzi and others, your missing one important point out here, and its the reason people are a little upset by this change of tack.
We were TOLD that the matches would be re-arranged, so we all went wahoo and booked for Duxford.
Not a pop at Ems, she does a bloody good job, just whats happened up to now.
Im goin to Duxford, Im suspecting that because of Duxford, TSQN and other Squads will be depleted for THE games of the 4 Squad, IE the deciding games, because they got players going as well.. Formula for yet more flaming on the board because someones bound to accuse a squad of not putting out its strongest side.
As you say hard decisions, im off to Duxford to enjoy my day out, others will have to decide what they want to do.
(Oh and Mebes idea of a break between leagues is a good one - for just this reason) - blimey thats twice ive agreed with him this year :)
(e-mail mac? no comment?).
as in you're going to send me one or have sent one coz if you did i don't remember it.
Originally posted by Skeleton
(Oh and Mebes idea of a break between leagues is a good one - for just this reason) - blimey thats twice ive agreed with him this year :)
Please stop, lots of people are messaging me asking if I feel OK :p
Dragonweedy
05-09-2000, 20:52
I was thinking of trying a spot of mediation here, spreading oil on the troubled waters... but perhaps I lack the credentials required to gain respect from either side. I never go to organised AA meets, and I've never tried to organise 30 squads in a tournament.
Suffice to say, that I've read the posts, and have found myself swaying in sympathy to each side in turn.
My only comment to the Duxford-attendee brigade would be one along the following lines...
Attending an Airshow, and paying respects to the fallen, is not an obligation, nor is it a prerequisite for membership of the "I Love AA" club. You do so because you want to, and because you can. No matter how many people go to the Show, it will not be a majority of the players of the game, and you don't really think that the AA world should grind to a halt because of your absence, do you? Oh, and saying that attendance is in order to show respect to those who saved US, is laying it on rather thickly... Whilst it may be true for some, I wouldn't elevate this to the level of a religious pilgrimage
As for the League Masters, Organisers, Refs;
You were obviously put in a no-win situation, particularly after the rescheduling that took place earlier in the year for a Duxford Meet. I don't suppose that anyone realised then, that it would make the final round would coincide with the Big Meet (or did they?). Even with entire squads arranging to visit Duxford this weekend, there would still be MORE complaints from folk who can't play midweek matches, or late evenings, because there are simply more people NOT going than there are people who ARE. It is a very tricky one.
Dragonweedy
05-09-2000, 20:56
I'm already thinking about deleting that last post... I shouldn't open my big mouth when I don't know what I'm talking about.
But if I did that, I'd never post anything at all (who was that? who cheered?)
Timings between leagues
There was 6 weeks between leagues.
Squadrons reported they were not ready and the league was delayed. All fixtures were redone. Four weeks
It was requested that the league be popspoened due to an AA meet. All fixtures were redone. Three Weeks.
The server crashed during the middle of a round. All fixtures were redone. Two weeks.
I can allow fo some events, but not all. Perhaps I should put two months between leagues to allow for all eventualities. Oh no, wait, I did that last time and there was an uproar because there were no games on.
'Johnnie' Johnson
05-09-2000, 21:20
Originally posted by SonicYoof
Riiight.. before this gets out of hand....
I've spoken to MarkyB (TNT) and Phillie Time (Tempests) who have both agreed on Sunday at 10pm - 616... that ok?
/me looks for JJ :E
Well I've had very little response so far on the idea of a shift to Saturday/Friday, so I might as well say yes to Sunday 10pm and have done with it.
I know of at least one pilot who probably won't make it, but what the hell, we frequently turn up with only 5 anyway!
Regarding the arguments to and fro, I agree it's a personal choice. I was quite prepared to miss AA during the last Duxford, and would do so again because it's a very special event. But then I never did get over worked about league positions, never catch me totting up the points to make sure we were in the place, no sirree!
I can see how the initial announcement that the matches could be moved is what causes all the grief. It's an old military adage though isn't it; order + counterorder = disorder.
RED KITE
05-09-2000, 21:27
Your points of view are very valid Dragonweedy, as they always are.
Of course your right that its not a pilgramage for most peps, but you do get some very keen people at these gatherings, from all walks of life.
For me it was just a family day out, educating our children, meeting new faces, sharing the atmosphere of the occassion, some sombre moments, some exciting ones, but always reflecting on what might have been had those BoB pilots not done their bit.
Duxford is special and this the 60th anniversary makes it doubly so.
And shame on you Radio/ops Tripa have you forgotten already that Duxy is the home base of Sally B :laugh:
SonicYoof
05-09-2000, 21:29
Cheer JJ...
so its Sunday at 10pm then - just need a ref now - Feathers? :E
jackheever
05-09-2000, 21:53
All hail dragonweedy the king of common sence.I'm hoping to get to Duxford,and havnt a clue if odt have a match this weekend,but if my tenous arrangements to go work out i'll go without a second thought for aa.I try my best to attend squad stuff as best as i can but at the end of the day(for me personally) real world comes before virtual world everytime.As for the people trying to lay a guilt trip on others because of the significance of the event,personally the main reason i want to go is to look at the planes.
Skeleton
05-09-2000, 23:00
Well Said Jack, like i said decison time.. AA or Duxford.. Im goin to Duxdord :)
I think it's a little dramatic claiming to go to Duxford to honour the fallen or whatever. I'm going because it sounds like a good day out, simple as that.
I'm pretty sure TSQN will get ten pilots along for our match, and when we have done this in the past I have had it aimed at me "what were you moaning about, you still had enough for the match".
True - but only because of hard work on the part of myself and others, and the fact that we have a good bunch of people who will put themselves out to turn up.
It's bloody frustrating.
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