Important information left out.

[[jedi] Yavin C,O]

Ok in our game tonight I was informed about the no runwaying in league games rull. ?

Just wondering when that happend and why I was not informed. Could all league LM'S please ensure important information like that gets to us all.

I know you may have posted the info here, but due to personal reasons I no longer read this forum much.

So if you dont have Yavin@teamjedi.freeserve.co.uk or jedi@airattack.co.uk in your list then please add them. thanks.

Other than this your doing a good job.

[Rocky]

AFAIK, no rule of this nature has ever been introduced. It's just been frowned upon, particularly ramming. I think you (or the official in question) might have their wires crossed.

[[jedi] Yavin C,O]

Err...... It was EMS ?

Em, What I read was ems saying that runwaying was no longer allowed ? and she asked the ref to do somthing about it.

Could someone else who was at this game please either back what im saying up or clear up what was actually said. ?
Im not going to bitch as I may be wrong. But I would like an answer. :(

[Passion Called Hate]

Speaking as one of the pilots tonight, i view runwaying in team games as the product of desperation from people who cant hit an airbourne target.

If you really want to hit a stationary (or virtually stationary)object, choose a tree

Otherwise play the game, and use tactics and skill and pin the opposition on the base.

<PCH>

[Macwedd]

hhmm first I've heard about this, how about we also have a "you must tske off" rule to to stop squads just sitting there. If you're going to have one you really gotta have the other?

Also isn't round 10 abit late to be bringing something like this in?

Probably all just a missunderstanding.......

[XRobList]

Iam quoting from the Code Of Conduct:


Deliberate and persistent ramming of other planes is not allowed.

[Unkempt]

Code of conduct != league rules

[Smudger]

Blimey.

[[jedi] Yavin C,O]

FFS Guys I know the C.O.C :)

And I thought I new the league rules. this is why I have asked this question.

As for runwaying. If the team I have just pinned is not going to take off just to save their ass then its their fault that they are runwayed(not rammed).

Sorry but it has to be done. (only in league games mind not ffa) you cant have teams just sitting it out on the runway nice and safe. would that have happend in WW2. I think not, they wouldnt just have runwayed them they would have droped a ton of bombs on em as well.

as mac said you cant have one rule without the other.

[tinvek]

i've nothing agains being runwayed, and there's enevitably goint o be some accidental rams

but

Originally posted by [jedi] Yavin C,O


As for runwaying. If the team I have just pinned is not going to take off just to save their ass then its their fault that they are runwayed(not rammed).



unless my understanding of the aa collision detection is wrong, isn't it imposible to destroy a stationary target with gunfire, the only way in fact being to ram it ?

[[jedi] Yavin C,O]

You can kill planes on the runway.

This is only in a league game mind, never in ffa.

[Edited by [jedi] Yavin C,O on 14-09-2000 at 11:25 AM]

[[jedi] Yavin C,O]

Oh and before you post please do si if you can asnwer the above(top post) question. I dont want this to turn into a debate about runwaying. its been done far to many times in the past and nothing new could possibly be said about it.

I just wana know why ems said there was a new rule. when your all saying she's talking through a hole in her ( o ) . :dance:

[Rocky]

There is no new rule about not runwaying in matches even if Ems said there was

Ok?

:)

[Dark Dave]

Yeah, runwaying should be allowed in teams, it`s upto the team to protect each others take-off. But I don`t think we need a 'must take-off rule' in a 4-squad match, there should be plenty of other targets.

[Hazlo]

Runwaying is just a waste of fuel...no wonder its so expensive:E

[[jedi]Assassin]

LOL@Hazlo, nice one m8.

But seriously, to Passion, I agrre with ya to an extent m8, but it must be remembered that AA is a ww2 SIMULATOR, im sorry, but if you were a pilot above a runway with an enemy plane taking off, would you really not fire at it at all?. Just wondering.:)

[Dragonweedy]

Originally posted by [jedi] Yavin C,O
Oh and before you post please do si if you can asnwer the above(top post) question. I dont want this to turn into a debate about runwaying.


Spoilsport :P

[Edited by Dragonweedy on 14-09-2000 at 02:19 PM]

[Phillie Time]

Personally I think there should be a "must take off rule"
If any one wonders why.... I'll happily demonstrate....

Would be an interesting experiment too :)

get 8 P51s - leave em landed - and a team of 109s runway them all they like - I think ppl will be suprised in the result of the scoring after.......

well unless my theory is totally wacko

[Rocky]

I think you mean P38s Phillie - and I tend to agree. It is extremly difficult to explode a stationary P38 with a 109, plus as it sits dead level, it's cannon can hit low flying runwayers as they pass.

There have been several reports of squadrons defending a lead (especially in 2squad compos) by just sitting on the runway and forcing suicidal runwaying attempts by the opposition.

The reason given for this act of, what is considered by some to be "****e sportsmanship", is a variation on the following theme:

What's the point in taking off when pinned to feck and getting hammered? We all want to win?

I leave you to decide for yourselves, but I'll tell you this, I personally think it sucks.

Discuss (not flame).

[Ems]

I fail to see why you insist om making posts like this Yavin, when the person concerned is likely to read them!

The rule I was referring to exists, as Unk and Rob have pointed out, in the Code of Conduct and the 4 squad league rules since before the league began, so why complain about it now? The referees have recently been asked to take notice when squadrons complain about it, as both TIGERS and ELITE did last night when your team start ramming them on the runway. All other considerations aside, the Code of Conduct for the game is the basis of the Rules for the league. As I warned you last night, breach of those rules in the game will mean you are penalised.

If you havent read the Code of Conduct or the League Rules in the last 6 months or so then I guess it is a new rule. However, it is not my responsiblity to ensure that you are your squadron abide by them, it is yours as CO.

Ramming is not permitted in league games as it is not permitted in the Code of Condict for the game. I hope that clears things up

Emily


[Edited by Ems on 14-09-2000 at 03:14 PM]

[Rocky]

Originally posted by XRobList
Iam quoting from the Code Of Conduct:


Deliberate and persistent RAMMING of other planes is not allowed.


Ramming is not nice and is against the rules. Runwaying isnt particularly nice sometimes either, but it ain't against the rules. It is important people correctly distinguish between runwaying per se and ramming.

This is a teams arena match, not a ffa issue.

Now go and tell me that some people accidentally ram people when runwaying etc etc - yes, a grey area, I know.........

[Macwedd]

on thinking about it esp in a team arena i don't really see the problem with ramming coz u both get 1 point and the rammee ends up wayyyyyy back over at their base thus clearing the way for u to takeoff.....strange how something that benifits the rammee pisses thwem off so much...weird

[[jedi] Yavin C,O]

Ems Shut your cake whole.

They way you went on last night was that they were runwaying not raming(before you type get it right first). If you at any time had said they had ramed anyone I would have taken action. But to the best of my knoledge you never.

I made a post to find an answer to a question that answer was given. there is no rule to stop a runway attack ( liked or not) Thats all I wanted to know.

I had no knoledge of any pilots who were ramed by any of my pilots. this is another matter. which I will investigate and deal with.

I know the C.O.C and league rules. if you had taken the time to read my first post. you would have seen I had no idea anyone was rammed. and was simply asking about a runwaykill rule. But if you want to get bitchy then go for it.

[XRobList]

Originally posted by [jedi] Yavin C,O
Ems Shut your cake whole.

Well thats a nice way to thanks for all the work shes but into the league...... I dont think.

Oh and its "hole"

[Rocky]

Calm down you lot - ffs.

Ramming - there is a rule against it, but like Mac, sometimes I wonder why.

Runwaying - disliked and incurs wrath, but it's legal.

End of story.

Now debate the bloody "should they take off or not" thing or else I shall taunt you a second time.....

:)

['Johnnie' Johnson]

OK for the sake of debate let's take the first part of Rocky's statement:

What's the point in taking off when pinned to feck and getting hammered...

Any answers? Assuming that in the process of taking off you a)can't see what's coming because there's so much wreckage on the runway, and b)have a 90% chance of being blown away before you get off the deck.

Please use both sides of the paper. You have 30 minutes starting....

Now

[Ghost [Borg]]

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Stikky situation here... very stikky...

(not too stikky I hope)

:stare:

[[Jedi]Gryphon]

Ok I was merrily pinning Ems team on the runway by running up and down shooting em.

One who rammed ME in the air was Ems, I am sure it was an accident but DAMN it lol.

Then I was told to stop(DAMN AGAIN) I stopped at that point and EMS'S team proceeded to stooge low arround their airfield. Annoying but a fair tactic. However I STOPPED RUNWAYING them because she told me too.

Think about this for a mo I have the upmost respect for everyone involved here but I had em pinned down on the runway and let em up because she told me too. Is that "Fair", hmmmm I will leave that to you.

Ok I also rammed someone on the SU runway, I was dead and couldnt pull up. I had followed someone down and couldnt pull up. I apologied immediately and told Rob I had done it. B4 note anyone winged.

Now this is important if I had been allowed to runway they would never have got off the bloody ground. I had to overfly their base repeatedly being downed because I couldnt attack em low.

I lost my life repeatedly this way having followed someone back n killed em. Fair that isnt it, I wouldn't mind really if I had been told no runwaying b4 we started and Jedi would have practiced other tactics, but we practiced hi/low pinning.


It was a good game though and a shame that we didn't get to finish it.

I was very impressed with the way Demonz/Tigers flew in the both halves. Plus the Elite boys who bounced the hell out of Jedi late first half which was a complete pain lol.


As for the Taking Off/Runwaying Issue lets just allow the lot as ramming favours neither side. It is very irritating but thats all and to be honest I dont care if I get rammed either in the air or on the ground.

[Hellsangel]

/me sticks Ghost to the wall :P

[Hellsangel]

What G-man when u say practice do u mean ACTUALLY WORKING!

I enjoyed owning u all in me LA-7 in praccy last week :E

[tinvek]

Originally posted by [jedi] Yavin C,O
Ems Shut your cake whole.



now according to neo, ems and yavin are all members of this mysterious elite class of air attack that stick up for each other :)

[tinvek]

Originally posted by [Jedi]Gryphon
Ok I was merrily pinning Ems on the runway .





ah the power of behaving like a journalist and miss quoting people :)

[Mebe]

Who is this Miss Quoting, is she attractive? does she get misquoted often?
:)

[Dark Dave]

Originally posted by Rocky

Ramming - there is a rule against it, but like Mac, sometimes I wonder why.

Runwaying - disliked and incurs wrath, but it's legal.

End of story.


I can`t see how you can ban one without banning them both, ofcourse if someones doing a lot of runwaying they`ll end up ramming someone.
I think neither should be banned, it`s a team game and upto the team to support each other on take-off.


AS for a must take-off rule, in 2-squad yes, 4-squad no, it`s not needed in 4-squad because the idea is to win and if one team desides to waste time on the runway they aren`t gonna do very well and therefor you can go and attack someone who is a threat.

[Ems]

and with the comment "Ems shut your Cake Whole" (Whole?) I Shall retire gracefully from this thread. Any further input required from me can be obtained by emailing me

Ems

[[jedi] Yavin C,O]

I wanted an answer. I got one. but you still wanted to put you 2p worth in ems.

As for the comment are we in an elite group. Bah.!!! I hate the idea of that as much as most of you do.

Oh and please dont take my question or comments to mean I dont feel that the LM's are doing a good job. they are.

Its just that the above post was fine with some funny answers to my question. thats all I wanted.
then enter's ems.
"I fail to see why you insist om making posts like this Yavin, when the person concerned is likely to read them!"
What you on about you mad mad person.

Can I also just point out this board is suposed to be for AirAttack, to give the community the chance of some help when they need it. its not for flaming or being a complete and utter W-A-N-K.
Next time I have a simple question to ask I will do it on another board. cause if I do it here it will surely end up a WAR of words. ( this is the main reason I no longer read this forum. )

[XRobList]

How ungratefull can you get.

[Black Adder]

Seems to me a certain # of people are flaming Yavin for no apparent reason...

He asked a question about runwaying, then certain people go on about ramming.

Yavin bemoans the fact his question is being distorted, he gets flamed for it...

:rolleyes:

[Unkempt]

Errmmm... sorry, '!=' means does not equal, i.e. the code of conduct does not apply in the leagues, league rules do. Am I wrong?
(serves me right for being a smartarse)

[XRobList]

What do you mean we are flaming Yavin for no reason!
Check my post about 4 above for the quote.

[Slain]

Ummm, Yavin's post was about whether or not there was a rule against runwaying. Emily appears to have misread it? He did go a bit OTT after though. :(

[[Jedi] Boba Vont]

The League Master ordered Jedi not to runway - so we stopped. It was runwaying we were criticized for - not ramming.

Not only is runwaying perfectly legal but while she is playing Ems should just report incidents to the referee and let someone neutral decide whats legal and what penalties to apply.

Yavin made this post because we were told specifically not to runway - which is legal. I've got nothing against Ems, who has given up loads of her time for us and I think she does a great job. But I think she was frustrated and made a mistake by telling us not to RUNWAY.

Personnally, I only runway if I've got someone on my 6, no flaps and no where else to turn. I avoid it partly because it annoys people, partly because I don't think the tactic is very effective and partly because I usually make a pancake out of my plane. But there are some people who do it and it is a valid tactic. I didn't cry unfair when I was runwayed and rammed repeatedly in a previous game - I just got on with it and was soon in the air getting kills.

P.S. Forget that Whole thing about the cake - Yavin was understandably annoyed and can't spell.

[XRobList]

Originally posted by [Jedi] Boba Vont
Forget that Whole thing about the cake - Yavin was understandably annoyed

I was wondering when someone would say that. Iam sorry for saying that. Seems to be a failsafe excuse. I get it from my squadron all the time.

"Iam sorry for firebombing your house, I was just annoyed, M8s now though right?"

Okay so that didnt really happen but you see my point.

[Dilly]

as a neutrals point of view, i dont personally know either yavin nor ems but have to say that yavin has a fair point. He asked a simple "community" based question, requiring a forthcomming simple answer. Why did the LM of the 4 squad league tell the Jedi squad to stop runwaying and that runwaying is against the rules? (if thats what happened) answer it please.

Now, ive been playing aa for a year now and absoulutely love it. im an average player, not that well known, i keep my nose clean, try and play by the rules wherever possible, wash and polish my spitfire every sunday etc etc... but over the past few months i have become increasingly peeved at certain situations within the game e.g bad sportsmanship, moaning, server issues, some rules(that take the preverbial biscuit) etc etc....this only adds fuel to the fire to me making a decision to leave this game. many have went before me for the same reasons and many will leave in future also.

All the question required was a simple answer.

And im sorry if it seems im making a mountain out of a mole hill here but I for one find it rather difficult to comprehend that an LM is making rules up in the middle of a match. An important match that would decide the title.

Im sure i read somewhere that this only a game.
Could someone confirm that for me please? :)

[rcslopesurfer1]

sorry Rob I can't let you get away with that misquote this is exactly how it was worded.
Originally posted by [Jedi] Boba Vont


P.S. Forget that Whole thing about the cake - Yavin was understandably annoyed and can't spell.
And if you had taken as much interest in emms reaction to yav's comment you would have seen she put a question mark next to the mispelt word whole.
Boba should have put speach marks around the word whole to clarify what he meant like this.
P.S. Forget that "Whole" thing about the cake - Yavin was understandably annoyed and can't spell.
therefore pointing out that yavin meant nothing in the statement & just couldn't spell the word hole & he was understandably angry.
Hope that clears that up for you? :P

I like these dancing monkees I bet kenny uses them all the time but what we relly want Rob is dancing :pandas::laugh:
:jigga::jigga::dance::shakin::dance::jigga::jigga:

[XRobList]

sorry i missed out P.S

/me appoligises

['Cosmo']

Originally posted by XRobList
I get it from my squadron all the time.

"Iam sorry for firebombing your house, I was just annoyed, M8s now though right?"

[/B]

But i havent apologised yet, as i havent done it yet
Theres a fuel shortage at mo :E


Oh btw dilly would u mind terribly if i copied and pasted your post m8 and slapped my name at bottom ??? :) captured my feelings and thoughts exactly .

[TKFM_Maverick]

All of you should know better than to start a thread about Runwaying or ramming. How many times has this conversation come up?

At least at the mo there is no actual fighting but stop talkin bout it lol.

p.s. we all get frustrated bout being pinned just ask vultures last night vs kings lol

however you both should kiss and make up.


[TKFM] Maverick
[AAIC] Maverick
Cameron_SW


p.s. I think runwaying is ok and i always have done!!!

(he he just had to put that in)

[Rex]

I'd like to pick up on something that Boba Vont has said. I have had the pleasure of being part of the reffing team at 2 matches recently and in both games people who were not refs and were merely their flying for their respective squads have suddenly put on their CC, LMS, REFS etc tags and proceeded to call the shots during a match.

The first instance didn't really amount to much just a few disagreements between said person and myself. The second however resulted in complete confusion which lasted for a period of time afterwards. And this is obviously another case of the same thing happening whereby Ems as LM 4 squad has done a job that should have been left to refs, with this result.

I think that people need to realise that when they enter an arena to fly for thier squads they are their as squad pilots, not CC's or LM or Refs. If any of these people have a problem with something that occurrs during a game then they should do the same as the rest of us and wait till after the match before discussing it with Refs, LM's, CC's etc. Anyone who can't do this for the period of an hour for that match shouldn't be playing because their is obviously some scope for conflicts of intrest to arise.

I don't want Ems to veiw this as a personal attack on her because it isn't meant to be. It just stikes me that these issues wouldn't arise if people got on with what they were there to do, ie Fly for your squad or officiate..not both!

[Edited by Rex on 15-09-2000 at 10:00 PM]

[Rocky]

Rex has a rather valid point methinks.

[Hazlo]

Rex has a bloody good point there

erm ahem


/slips out back door

['Bat*21']

Yes, he certainly does, especially the last one, i was thinking about posting it at the start, but as i fly for jedi (not that match however), people would have thought i was scampering for excuses. Not that we needed excuses because we wernot in the wrong as wernot bending the rules to the extreem. And buy bending im not implying batting for the other side is wrong, which it is, but if i said that on a public board i would be flamed to eternaty because its all baed on morals and norms, but whats to say norm, is the norm, im confused, right, counterstrike it is... :(

[Marky B]

As a ref I cant help butting in when the 'officiating referee' is making a huge mistake. The amount of times TNT have been shouting at for breaking the '2 square max rule' by different referees pisses me off no end, how can you expect me to either obey the referee or wait till after the game to argue the point when obeying this non-existant rule could lose us a game?!?!

Thankyou

Marky

[Dark Dave]

Yeah Marky I`ve heard people use that rule against us, I just tell team to ignore it. lol

Frankly, the ref`s used to be reliable but their seems a lot of new ones that are still learning...
In our last match one Ref cause confusion by saying it was half time, when he actually ment we were half way though first half.

[Passion Called Hate]

and following that statement, one of the c/o's then put a screen full of stop shooting messages up.

total confusion.

(You know who you are!)

[rcslopesurfer1]

But surely it isn't up to the c/o's to put up "###*****stop shooting****### messages is it!
This is where its all falling apart imho, the referee is there to start the match, call halftime, full time, deduct points for any infringements etc.
All you c/o's ought to know better & butt out!
Just because you know how to put bloody stupid annoying messages up on the screen all the time doesn't mean you should be allowed too & I would like the referee to be allowed to deduct points from teams who's c/o's do this all the time.
So in future just let the referee get on with his job & sit on yer fecking hands if & when he deducts points from you, maybee then whilst sat on your hands you'd refrain from posting stupid gripeing messages on this nb!:furious:

[334th Lenagh]

Train the sodding ref's properly before releasing them into a live environment and then you must sit them with experienced referee's for their first two games to ensure their decision making is accurate.

That was enough in the past to ensure that referee's were trained to the correct standard. They would also have to undergo the same process for every type of league game they became involved in. If they wanted to ref KTF they needed a rating in it. To ref KO a rating was required.

They should also have print outs of the rules with them at all matches for reference and to quote the correct ruling's for muppets who don't have a clue and like to sit in every match telling you different.

And anyone calling out from the crowd to overule a referee was ignored whether they be the head of the AARA or the Pope(yes I was ignored on more than one occaision). Such matters were always resolved after games. Refree's are disciplined for the worst feck up's if needed as well.

Is Feathers the AARA head atm ?

Len

[Edited by 334th Lenagh on 16-09-2000 at 09:31 AM]

[Rocky]

Yes