Reach for the Sky - the Film

['Johnnie' Johnson]

I see this is on TV again, 2:20 this Sunday.

I must have seen it 6 times as a kid, but I can't remember any detail.

With any luck it will feature 616 squadron! Billy Burton, Cocky Dundas, Nip Hepple. Oh yes, and that chap whassisname, you know, bloke with no legs.

[Mebe]

No JJ, this is the new American remake, with characters such as C. Robert Herschelwitz III, Bubba Robberts and Tex 'Lone Star' Mitchell who single handedly beat of the Nazi hordes while performing life saving leg amputations for local British peasants.

Tom Hanks is lined up to play Bubba whilst George Clooney's ER experience will help him play Herschelwitz. Token British actor Eddie Izzard plays local good time girl Mary.

[Intron]

im sorry is this a film or an acid trip your talking about

[Hazlo]

ROFLMAO @ Mebe

:E

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Eddie Izzard as a good time girl? Great, this I've got to see, better get the video sorted.

[Mebe]

szo.. tell dzoctor Russths, you af a ssstrange fassscination wit de Mr. Izzard?

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Well it's like this doc, every time I hear him talking it makes my lips peel back, and I get this funny shaking in my sides and this odd noise comes out of my mouth, sort of like "Ha ha ha" but more flowing like.

Is it natural? Can it be cured?

[Dragonweedy]

I think it is time they gave us little sound effects, to use in the way we use smilies :)

Mebe's post got a Muttley "heh-heh-hehhhhhhhh"
JJ's would need a ScoobyDoo "hi-hi-heeee-hee-hee-hee"

Nope, words just don't capture it.

[Dragonweedy]

Kenneth More, unusual spelling isn't it?

Well, JJ, I checked the named cast, no mention of the chaps you listed. Leigh-Mallory, Dowding and Hallahan are the AMas. There are some male names listed without rank; Harry Day, Stan Turner, Robert Desoutter, Johnny Sanderson, "Woody" Woodhall, Peel, Streatfield, Crowley-Milling, Bates. Are any of those your chaps?

There's a few more (just for good measure);
Flight Sergeant Mills, Warrant Officer Blake, Warrant Officer West and Flying Instructor Pearson.


British Movie fans will be pleased to hear that those fine charactor actors Sam Kydd and Michael Ripper are in support (always there, seldom appreciated).

[Edited by Dragonweedy on 14-09-2000 at 03:48 PM]

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Woodhall - check, ground controller for Tangmere ops
Turner - check, fighter pilot
Peel - check, John Peel, another Wing Leader
Crowley-Milling - check, pilot with 242 IIRC

No 616 there, or amongst the others in that list.

Hmmmm, reading further on.

West - should that Sgt rather than W/O I wonder? Jeff West was with Bader the day he was brought down, now he was 616.

[Bat's Arse]

There was one of those 'Secret History' character assassinations on TV about a year ago, saying how Bader was really a bit of a b@stard. How when he was in Colditz and his medical orderly was going to be repatriated through the International Red Cross Bader stopped him from leaving.

Then there was an anecdote from a friend of Kenneth More which said that he was going to give a lecture at an RAF base where Bader was based and that he was warned off on the grounds that 'some of the people here knew Bader and he's not very well thought-of.'

As a final twist of the knife the programme said that Bader was prone to massive overclaiming and that only four of his kills can be confirmed.

Confirm or deny, anyone?

['Johnnie' Johnson]

I don't know about the overclaiming but I can confirm there were plenty of people who didn't like him. On the other hand, those who were closest seemed to admire him a lot. I suspect, but cannot be certain, that he might have played 'favourites'.

[Skeleton]

You can add Guy Gibson to the bit of a b*stard list, and thats according to folk who served with and under him, mind you like Bader, when your sending people on sorties that end with more than a good chance of their being killed or shot down.. I suppose you would have to be.

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Didn't know that about Gibson.

Next thing, I'll be hearing that Johnson was a total ****. Seriously though, I haven't read a bad word about him, so I'm hoping that particular chap remains unsmeared.

[Marky B]

Oh, that JJ is a right old bast :p

['Johnnie' Johnson]

:devil:

[Skeleton]

I don't think its a case of smearing him JJ m8.. I have this funny feeling that the "nice guy" approach wouldn't have worked though.

Went to see the 617 memorial at Woodhall Spa again this morning, hairs standing on the back of my head, lump in throat time. :(

Spoke to a policeman that happened to be by it, hes been in Woodhall 26 years and told me that the momorial never gets littered, vadalised touched etc.. so folk do still care and rightly so.

[paulfitzs]

Isn't Bader supposed to have wrecked a Spit on takeoff? Forgot routine check of prop pitch or something. Understandable maybe if under fire but I think this was routine flight.

I'm sure I read too that he was an advocate of "The Big Wing Theory", the trouble with that was by the time a big wing had assembled Gerry could often hit hard and fast and be on his way home. This would have made him enemies especially if the target was your airfield.

Whatever his shortcomings (& we all got 'em), Bader achieved much and is an admirable role model for the disabled so on balance he is quite a plus. Look at what it must have done to Gerry morale knowing that a legless man could win in the air.

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Originally posted by Skeleton
I don't think its a case of smearing him JJ m8.. I have this funny feeling that the "nice guy" approach wouldn't have worked though.



The stuff I've heard isn't that Bader was a swine to those he worked with directly. The problem seemed to be with those who were a little more distant. For example, at Tangmere he always flew with 616 and they seemed to like him, whereas the other two squadrons in the Wing (610 and 145) were the ones where the problems arose.

[tinvek]

stanford tuck sumed bader up

something on the lines of he was an arogant cocky, loudmouthed sod who could never see any point of view but his own and it was because of these traits that he had the determination to fly after his accident.

i think if your being a realist and just looking at numbers, then there were many other sqd / wing leaders who were as good if not better than bader, the difference was that because of his accident and his determination to fly, he had a certain charisma that rubbed off on those that flew with him, also because he was singled out by the press, any new pilots joining him already believed he was god.

similarly bob tuck, who the press were fond of stating that he was unbeatable in the air. as a result his pilots would follow him anywhere. ironically he was shot down and captured by antiaircraft guns that actually were higher up than where he was flying.

townsend was an oustanding leader in ww2 but wasn't thought of as a great due to anonimity till he started a certain romance.

there are plenty of pilots who are not known today who for one reason or the other slipped throught the press net without becoming household names. for example in the daily post today there is a pilot (from widnes i think) who was famous for while after spotting 3 dorniers on a direct route towards buckingham palace, he shot down two and then cut the tail off the third with his wing. all he got was a mentioned in despatches

[ReKKa]

I think that to be well known as a WWII pilot, U have to shoot lots of Nazis, and it just happends that the ones who are the most efficient Nazi killers, just happen to be *******s, but if thats what it takes, we still owe them a debt.