Please Help - This is driving me nuts!!

[[AHL]Dragonne]

Hiya,

As some of you will know (if you're a regular reader of these forums), I have recently rebuilt and reconfigured my PC. First up, my system is a T-Bird 800, sitting in an Abit KT7 (I am running the VIA 4in1 drivers - version 4.24). I have 128MB of PC100 Ram, a Creative GeForce DDR card (running the latest nVidia Drivers - 6.18), a Sound Blaster Live! 1024 (also running latest drivers). My OS is Win98SE, with the latest updates from Microsoft (IE 5.5, etc.). I have Direct X 7.0a installed.

Okay, that's the system. Now, the problem. I have several games installed on the PC. They are: Alien Vs Predator, Diablo 2, Deus Ex, Half-Life (inc. CS), and Quake III. The last two on the list, HL and Q3, run perfectly. I hav got onto various servers, and played for hours on CS with rip roaring frame rates and no stability problems whatsoever. Howver, that same can't be said of the other three titles. Deus Ex and AvP have a habit of crashing the PC at random intervals. In Deus Ex, it will run perfectly for anything from 20 seconds, up to an hour before anything untoward happens, but sooner or later it locks up the PC completely, freezing the screen, so that the only way I can get out is to reset the PC. AvP has the same symptoms, only it's more severe. I have not yet been able to make it through to the end of the first Marine mission. As often as I try, it always hangs the machine at some point during the first mission. Diablo 2 is the least severe of these. It's only crashed the PC once so far, but then I don't play it very often, either!!

Those are the faults. This is what I've tried doing in order to fix it:

I have re-installed the graphics card drivers a couple of times, including downloading the drivers again, in case a file may have been corrupted.
I have updated the VIA 4in1 drivers to the latest versions (4.24).
I have run dxdiag to ensure that DirectX was functioning properly. I also reinstalled DX7 over the top of the old version, from a different source, once again to ensure that there were no problems with DX.
I have disabled AGP 4x within the BIOS (although I have heard that the latest Det drovers disable it anyway)
I have got through Microsofts troubleshooting guide for DirectX, and tried everything that they suggested.

None of the above attempts have worked.

So please, does anyone else have any suggestions for me?

I am assuming that the problem is somehow DirectX related, as all of the games that are causing problems are running under D3D, and the two that aren't (HL abd Q3), are both running under OpenGL.

What I really don't want to have to do at this stage, is to re-install Windows again. I have reinstalled the operating system enough times in the recent past not to want to do it again. However, I feel that I may have to, unless someone here can give me any suggestions as to what else to try at this point.

Assuming I do have to reinstall Windows, is there any point in re-installing without formatting the HDD, i.e. over the top of my current installation? I am concerned that if I do it this way, I may end up with the same problem after I am finished.

All helpful suggestions gratefully received...

[werewolf_bite]

Hi

Is anything sharing an IRQ if so what?
The live cards in my machines used to cause crashes when they shared irq's with other cards.

Also how hot is the video card getting?
I ask because my banshee used to crash the system under heavy use (usually when the room was warm) due to overheating.

Also check cpu temp in the bios just after a crash, T-birds put out a lot of heat, and D3D puts a lot of work onto the cp which will raise it's temp a lot, possibly causing a crash.

Simple way to check out overheating is open the case, put a desk fan so that it is blowing into the case at a low speed (not gale force, gentle breeze will do) and try running the games, that will provide a lot of cooling and should eliminate any hot air pockets that are building up.
If overheating is the problem you need more case fans, or possibly a card cooler.

I've heard of a lot of unexplained crashes due to overheating.

[werewolf_bite]

oh and a quick addition, you could try upping the CPU's core voltage a bit in the bios (i have the same mobo with a duron, i love the softmenu bios setup).
I would think about 0.25v would be enough to rule out an under voltage problem.

But this is a last resort, as i don't think it would be cuasing the problem s you are describing unless the board is undersupplying the cpu.

[[AHL]Dragonne]

Hi m8,

I'll have a look at the heat issue when I get home this evening, but I doubt that this is the problem. I have installed a case fane recently, and looking at the VIA hardware monitor after a crash shows my CPU at about 45 degrees, and the case temperature at about 32 degrees. This can't be too high, can it?

As to the Sound Card, I only installed that a couple of days ago. Previously, I was running a SB64 PCI, and I was having the same problems then. I'll check the IRQ settings too, but surely IRQ problems would cause problems in all games, not just the D3D ones?

The CPU core voltage thing I haven't looked at. I'll give that a go too. Also, with that in mind, I changed my PSU at the same time as installing the sound card. Previously I was running a 230W PSU which was a remnant of my old system, but I now have a 300W. Once again, the problems were occurring before, and are still happening.

Any other thoughts?

[PADDYBOY]

A lot of people have had trouble (although not as severe as you seem to be having) with the 6.18 drivers - they don't seem to be too hot with D3D unfortunately and it could be these causeing the problem. Deus Ex's D3D is also a bit crap and you need a patch to sort it out a bit.

I would suggest that you change your driver version to 5.22 or 5.33 and see what happens...

[[AHL]Dragonne]

Now that is something I haven't tried. However, where could I get the older Detonator drivers from? nVidia only have the latest drivers on their site.

As for the D3D issue in Deus Ex, I have the Beta patch for that already. Deus Ex was a nightmare to run before I got that!!

[rat770]

Hi

I don't think your problem is heat related because the system is stable while playing Q3 and HL. But to check it out you could try running the system without a cover. If the problem is heat related then increasing the cpu voltage will make it worse.

HL and Q3 don't require you to have the CD if you play online, do the games that crash force you to have the CD inserted. If so the problem might be CD related or power comsumption related.

You could also try...

check if there is there is an updated bios for the motherboard.

load the safe defaults from bios.

do a thorough check on all the HD's for errors.

[[AHL]Dragonne]

Hmmm, just when I thought that you might have hit on the answer, I realised that AvP doesn't require the CD in the drive to run :(. Damn, I thought I may have nailed it there.

Anyway, I'll have a look at the power thing along with the voltage issue this evening. I'm thinking about taking the DVD Rom drive off the same belt as my HDD too. I have left it on there up until now because my HDD is only DMA33, and I figured that it wasn't worth moving things around. However, maybe it is...

[JGJones]

I really really doubt it's a heat issue...if it was, it'll affect all games not just the D3D games. OpenGL games does use plenty of CPU power so if heat was a issue, they would get affected. My first thoughts was your SoundBlaster Live card as you mentioned having just installed it, but after re-reading, you stated the problems was there before with the previous sound card. The GeForce card is a possible source of problem but it's affecting only your Direct X based games - this suggest to me a driver problem and/or Direct X file issue as you've thought and I agree with that.

My suggestion is to go to Google - Search Results for DirectX Uninstaller (http://www.google.com/search?q=DirectX+Uninstaller&btnG=Google+Search) - then you can remove all trace of DirectX files from your Windows. Since it's not made by MS there probably are risks with it, but I've never had any. Also remove your driver (go back to standard VGA). Reinstall the VIA 4 in 1 drivers, DirectX 7.0a (7.0 is buggy and if you have that then it could be the reason) and finally the GeForce driver (might be a good idea to have the latest Detonator drivers from NVidia while you can).

Hope that helps

[prettyvacant:]

I think their are certain pci slots that should be avoided with the sb card , especially if your using the agp slot
the slot directly underneath isnt a good place for the soundblaster.
Hopefully someone with more of a clue can provide you with more info about this :)

[FearedPixel]

Well, im not really sure about this stuff, but if your problem is not hardware related, then you might find the answer here

http://go.to/kt7faq

peeps seem to consider than a v helpfull site

[[AHL]Dragonne]

Umm, Pixel m8,

That link of yours is a dud I'm afraid...

Thanks everyone for the advice, and please keep it coming if you can think of any more. I have a few things to try this evening (I don't want to try the DX uninstaller if I can help it, it seems a little iffy with Win98).

I still don't know where I can find previous versions of the Detonator drivers though, can anyone help with that?

[rat770]

Maybe your PC is just sick of hearing Pink Floyd :)

[Deathwish2000]

try these drivers

http://www.reactorcritical.com/files/NVidia/W9x-533.zip

and dont forget to remove the current drivers totally by

1) Change adapter to Standard VGA
2) Reboot
3) Search for nvidia, nv*.* and delete them if they are in the c:/windows or windows/system
4) Reboot
5) Install drivers
6) Reboot

all done
should say it better in the Readme file tho :E

[[AHL]Dragonne]

Thanks for all of the help everybody. I managed to get the 5.32 drivers from nVidia's website and installed those, and it appears to have worked. I managed to play AvP for quite a while with no crashes, and Deus Ex seems pretty stable too. Hopefully this will last.

One drawback though, my FPS in Half-Life has dropped by about 10!! Fortunately, this doesn't have too much of an impact, as I now average about 55FPS :).

Thanks again guys, it's good to see that the community is willing to help if they can.

Cheers,

Dragonne

PS Oh and Rat m8, my PC has very good taste, it looooves Pink Floyd music, interspersxed with a little Led Zepplin :E