View Full Version : League idea...
Right then. Seeing as how community liasons haven't been decided for the time being, and Tarbs is in charge for now, I'll post my idea. But please note that this is just an idea, and it will need some fleshing out.
Most of Wireplay's competitions have so far been played on a division or ladder basis. Personally I think this is getting pretty damn boring now. Leagues are a chore, and usually end up with unbalanced divisions (AaB's waltz through their division in the 1st WPTFCL springs to mind), and ladders are a pain in the arse because of the ammount of no-shows and general up-in-the-air-ness.
So how about a competition where there is more to it than just playing a match?
My idea was to have a competition based on a war. The competition would be based around a world map, where each clan is randomly assigned a country. With a litle bit of luck there won't be enough clans for each country, and there'll be some neutral countries left over. The object of the game is total world domination (something which is dear to some people's hearts).
After the countries are assigned, clans can start taking over countries. Neutral territories can be taken over straight away, without a match taking place, as nobody is there to defend it. But when a country is occupied by another clan, a match has to take place (with possibly a deadline given, to ensure that no-shows don't bog down the competition), and the winner occupies that territory. If your clan happens to have only one territory/country, and that is taken - then you're out of the game. You are only able to take over/challenge a neighbouring country (it has to be on your border). Of course, the better clans will amass captured countries quite quickly, but there is a price - the more territories they occupy, the easier it is to be challenged and the possibility of losing ground becomes greater.
Some kind of formula will be needed to determine victory, due to the nature of the competition it cannot be just a straightforward win. I've had a few ideas, but it's going to get complicated, the more I think about it the worse it gets. ;)
The proceedings could be put onto a webpage, with a nice world map showing who owns what, and who is challenging who (theres great potential for some "Dad's Army" style maps here :E).
Matches are arranged much like ladder matches, and if the deadline is not met then the country automatically gets handed over to the challenger.
Anyway, thats it. Needs a lot of work, but it could be a winner. :)
I think would be a winner would be a better phrase...
Sounds excellent and the possibilities are fairly endless :)
Sounds like a good comp to start the community off to a roaring start.
Our clan would be well up for it.
Good Luck with it all m8, hope it gets off the ground.
http://faster.wireplay.net/showthread.php?threadid=193664
bit more indepth as to the mechanics. Obviously this is meant for AA (which is a superior game.....er) so u cant *really* allie. Be a bit rubbish :)
But for advantages you could have a time penalty, defenders get an extra 30 secs/ get 15 secs less......
Matchs could be shorter or longer. x amount of rounds have to be won to get a square etc...
IJ
[Edited by ij on 26-11-2000 at 07:54 PM]
Sounds good, could be a bit complex in terms of organisation, but if that can be sorted should add a whole new element :)
withn@il_
26-11-2000, 21:31
sounds great .
You been playing "RISK"tm :E
Couple of problems with that one...
Originally posted by phatb0y
After the countries are assigned, clans can start taking over countries. Neutral territories can be taken over straight away, without a match taking place, as nobody is there to defend it.
Exactly how does that work? Surely if its not occupied and can be taken straight away everyone will declare it as theirs?
Originally posted by phatb0y
If your clan happens to have only one territory/country, and that is taken - then you're out of the game.
I dont think this is a good idea at all, this is a community thats just starting off, many clans formed are going to be in very early stages of organistaion and skill in FLF. I dont think that having a league where you can lose the whole game is such a good idea. The clans that are "out of the game" then have to sit out for how long eactly? Weeks? Months? It may put some clans off even.
I dont agree that Ladders are boring at all, every clan is permanetly in the running and there opponents are changing continually, its much easier to add new clans in too.
Im not trying to rip the idea to pieces because as Phatb0y says it is just that, but i personally think it could prove to difficult to maintain..... but who knows....as long as people cant "lose" the game and not play for a long time.
We need a lot of ideas and discussion before we even start to flesh it out into any kind of basic idea, who else got some brains to offer? :)
Sun
[Edited by SUN GOD on 26-11-2000 at 08:50 PM]
GrimBlade2K
26-11-2000, 21:48
LOL - I've had this exact same idea for years...was going to try and apply it to CS, and was going to suggest it here in a few days :)
It is a damned good idea, and you've obviously put a lot of thought into it...as I did in the past. It would be quite difficult, but it really is workable, so I urge whoever does get CL position to mull this one over.
Of course, having a straight league as well is probably a good idea, just to make things simple. The biggest hurdle is, do you put a maximum length on how long this goes on for and if there's a timelimit, how do you decide the victor. And if it goes on for a VERY long time, what do you do about potential new clans?
Anyway, it is a good idea, and well thought out here.
I like the whole idea of it and i think it would b way more interesting then the ladder. If we could sort out the problems then im sure it will be a success. ;)
JOHNNY L
26-11-2000, 22:00
you could change it to it being impossible to lose you home territory so you were never out of the game, but that does then leave you with the situation of a weak clan completely surrounded by some double hard ******* one.
i think it would be a class idea in theory, it could really give ppl a sense of achievement as they see they're territory increase. But I think it would be a better 'side league' like the tournaments you get that go longside main leagues in other games/mod, it would jsut be an extended tournament where ppl know they can get knocked out early on.
Another prob might be if you end up with 2 or 3 'super powers'. Your gonna then end up with one of 2 situations, 2 clans that simply cant beat eachother. Or even if one is better than the other you'll end up with a very depressing ssituation, with a clan continously losing.
In this kind of league you dont want homemaps, you want each territory to be assigned a map. I think it would give a better feeling of 'im actually trying to conquer/defend this one place, its always the same place'. Plus it may help the situation of one clan being so dominant on they're own map that tehy will never lose.
[Edited by JOHNNY L on 26-11-2000 at 09:07 PM]
JOHNNY L
26-11-2000, 22:04
although it would take away alot of the idea of gradually increasing your borders, you may want to change it to just having a world map, and you are allowed to challenge any zone on the whole map. But then it stops being such a radical idea.
[Edited by JOHNNY L on 26-11-2000 at 09:08 PM]
Yah i dont think u can have it either way
U never lose ur home territory or u lose it and your out.
It just wouldnt work :cry:
Im drafting my league idea up, with u later....
JOHNNY L
27-11-2000, 00:36
i think it would work as a tournament
cos tournaments basically work like that, you dont go in and lose and then get really really upset about not being able to play anymore (well not in an 'unable to comprehend why you cant play more' way ;))
you would understand that when you are out you are out
as a continously league that everyone can play fromn start to finish it woulndnt work
[Edited by JOHNNY L on 26-11-2000 at 11:38 PM]
This idea's been chucked up a few times over the years - I once went as far as making a nice big hexagonal world map out of a huge pieve of paper (and some cork kitchen tiles for some reason that now escapes me) but never finalised any rules.
It sould work and it should work - and if anyone can get together a solid set of rules it would be fantastic. Right bitch to organise though...
phatb0y's dead right that FLF is the ideal setting for a league like this - it's a small new community with loads of people in it from all over the place (CS, TFC, HL DM etc) and is an ideal testing ground for something along these lines.
I bet FuS'll have a go as well :E
This definately sounds exciting, and is certainly different, but i'd be a real bitch to organise and run. Also, as sun god said, if clans are able to be knocked out, what happens to them? they have to wait to re-enter? they're never allowed to enter again? if any of these are true then that'll be a real downer for clans knocked out and could even lead to many folding. If however clans can't be knocked out, that they can't lose their last country, then you could never have a winner, which doesn't make for much of an incentive for clans to join the league? Also weaker clans could see their borders surrouned by stronger clans, great as playing for fun is, there's not much fun in losing to a clearly dominant clan week in, week out. Also when one clan has a huge area of land, they're going to be surrounded by lots of countries and will be taking more challenges than they can play.
In theory its great..... in practice.... i can't see it working tbh :/
OMG it's MagnuM!
lo mate :)
lo ricey!
long time no see m8
still playing tfc?
icq me, 53281836
I like this idea (nice one Phatboy)...
So its like the board game 'Risk'?
I am glad peeps are think about this one now because as Skunk says whatever is arranged is gonna be a real bitch to sort because of the nature of the game...
get those ideas on the forums peeps
It is going to require a lot of work, and the idea is no where near fully developed (thats where you guys come in).
What I pictured was a competition that could be run in parallel with any league that was taking place. It doesn't have to be a long, drawn out affair. One thing that did annoy me about the leagues I'd taken part in before, was that they took too damn long to run to a conclusion, and the winner was normally decided within the first couple of weeks anyway (and the matches became a formality). I figured that this competition could be run in a short length of time (comparatively speaking), and because of the nature of the game everyone could be given a fair crack of the whip. "Uber clans" could be given handicaps (nothing great, just enough to make things interesting) or even given specific objectives.
As for clans getting knocked out, it's essential to the game. Theres no difference in my eyes between a clan getting knocked out of a competition, or a clan that gets beaten a few times in a league and then either folds or spends the rest of the season given default wins to other clans because it can't be arsed to turn up for a match. Also, if the competition was a fairly short one (I figured it should last no more than a couple of months) then everybody would get their chance.
The formulas for winning will be what makes or breaks this. Wins will have to be based on circumstance, so that people can't just march across the map without being challenged. Obviously people who are defending need an advantage, but not too much of an advantage or the game will be a perpetual stalemate.
Get your thinking caps on peeps. :)
Riiight. . .
Theres always the possibility that a clan who has no "home territory" doesn't lose the chance to play, but has to choose an adjoining territory to regroup their armies.
For example. Say a clan lost their homeland. They have the option of regrouping in an adjacent country (in otherwords, invading an other clans territory).
This would mean that the clan would still be able to play games, and that clans unlucky to have lost their homeland would still have opportunities.
OR
and this is my other idea .. certain territories will always be neutral (hello all you crazy Swedes), and any defeated clan will be forced to seek refuge in this area . . therefore being without territory but with the possibility of striking out into any world territory (no adjacent only limits with this idea). By not limiting the defeated clans' options to contiguous territories this also removes the problem that areas bordering the neutral territories would be impossible to keep a hold of.
hmmm?
Also
:(
I can't see this working as a tournament. Because the last two competitors would both own a vast amount of territory, so that a win would only concede a small amount of territory.
Unless for the last round it was made a knock out, where the winner instantly takes over all of the other clans territories which I couldn't imagine as being popular to the loser ;).
--------------------
Alternatively . . .
A variation on the main theme could be that at the beginning of a league all clans are allied to a world power. Axis vs. Allies, NATO vs. Warsaw, Commies vs. Scum-sucking capitalists. Each clan would own a sovereign nation within the global conglomerate, allied with all other clans.
The downsides to this are
1) You would not be able to attack any clan. Your target would have to be on the enemy side.
The upside to this is:
1) A real rivalry would develop, and camaraderie between allied clans would be a beneficial side effect.
2) A real feeling of community and joint purpose.
3) Clans losing territory could regroup from the nearest allies' territory. Perhaps a one game forfeit for losing their homeland would have to operate but this means that the system could operate as a league.
4) The battle would be truly epic and ongoing. This would make leagues less likely to drop out.
Other gubbins:
Clans that dropped would allow clans unhappy with their current alignment (like East Germany) to defect to the opposite power. A replacement clan would replace erm . . them.
--------------------------------------
As you can tell, I really like this idea. :E
Originally posted by phatb0y
As for clans getting knocked out, it's essential to the game. Theres no difference in my eyes between a clan getting knocked out of a competition, or a clan that gets beaten a few times in a league and then either folds or spends the rest of the season given default wins to other clans because it can't be arsed to turn up for a match.
But it is different for a dedicated clan who wants to play and win but that goes out first time due to superior opposition. You just cant kick people out unless you run it as a separate Tourny and not a league.
But then I think Molloy is really onto something there, to world powers would be good, i think that would be excellent for the community as the rivalry and the cammaraderie (dunno how to spell it) would be immense. Everyone on one side would always be interested in who won or lost as it will affect their game.
Many possibilities...
Sun
Cheers Sun,
heres your tenner ;)
Top this post im reading with intrigue and planning world domination:E
Holy...out
DaddyOrChips
28-11-2000, 14:15
heres scraping the barrel:
Once a clan's homeground has been taken over it becomes a vassal state of the group that took it over. It is then responsible for defending that territory in the name of the clan/alliance that took it over. Sort of a East Germany/Communist Bloc scenario.
That'd keep all clans playing and would make for interesting strategies - the territories with decent clans in them could become much sought after.
maybe i just need a lie down.
DaddyOrChips
28-11-2000, 14:29
oh-oh theres more:
the ruling clan/alliance could then shift clans around to defend different areas.
To make sure that the crappy clans dont get bored, all clans could elect to "rebel" and fight the ruling clan/alliance thereby forcing the ruling clan to either constantly fight them or give them some action elsewhere.
damn thats good:)
Holy...out
Good ideas :E
I think we need to get working on prospective rules, but first we need to know if any clans would be interested in playing in such a league.
Personally, I love the alliance idea :pimp:
My reason is that up until now clan leagues have resembled football games, with fixtures, home grounds, points, ranks, tables.
I want to make a competition that is all about WAR!
With alliances and schisms and battles and camaradarie and steeeel on steel. .. .<takes deep breath>
Of course to appease clans who want to be known as l33t, we would have a ranking system to show which countries were performing well.
THis would also lead to very intersting scenarios where one alliance would attempt to outmanouver another, bringing their l33t clans to bear against lesser enemies, while the other side tried to get their own l33t clan to defend, or to invade enemy territory and regain territory in that manner.
A world of possibilities :E
ANYWAY
are there any objections to this idea, and most importantly, would clans want to play in such a ground breaking and involving league and shun the hackneyed "tried and tested" league system?
If people are interested then I'll gather some likeminded responsible adults ;) and we can start thinking up some rules.
Braindead
29-11-2000, 00:39
This sounds an absolutly great idea; but very difficult to actually organise. Spent na hour last night gonig over various ideas with a uni mate, and found big problems no matter which angle we came from. Trying to make it fair, fun and moake sure it doesnt end up with just a few clans locked in stalemate is a tad difficult....... but it can hoepfully be done :)
2 alliances scatter em around the globe.
Each territory is assigned a homemap so that map must be played everytime war occurs on that land. Each week a team either attacks or defends a territory, they cannot do both in the same league nite/week.
There are a host of neutral territories throughout the globe. When a clan is beat, they lose their territory and the next time they play they must begin at a neutral territory
Every week/nite that a territory is held consecutively after attack then it gains a bonus.
Hmm im stuck now, dunno what bonus yet, im thinking on the fly, i'll be back later with some more info...
Sun
JOHNNY L
29-11-2000, 17:21
neutral territories would soon disappear, you'd have to have something like if a clan in a neutral territory gained a victory off someone else they vacated the neutral zone
also still need to sort something about a weaker clan being surrounded by one double hard *******
if you really wanted to complicate things you could have joint attacks :E where 3 members from one clan and 3 from another play in the same match :)
[HB]hiro
29-11-2000, 18:31
What a cool idea!
Dunno if this has been said already but I couldn't be bothered to read all the other threads so...
Each clan could have 1 home territory that could not be lost so that way they are never out of the game. Neutral territory idea is good as long as a clan can only challenge a neighbouring territory, not one anywhere on the globe.
How about being able to "hire" mercenaries (other players who are really good) if you need to get a vital territory?? Dunno how the payment side would work but that could be a fun idea. Maybe give up a territory to a clan for use of their "star player"???
This is one of the best ideas I've seen in ages and if it works would be great.
HB are thinking of reforming for FLF so bring it on!
er this is getting too complicated now
yeah, sod it, lets just have yet another f*cking table system
:(
JOHNNY L
29-11-2000, 23:45
calm down molloy :)
Mol dont be like that, i know IRC wasnt as productive as we hoped. BUt beleive me when some people had left and otehr sjoined we got some good stuff. Aardvark and Grimblade both had some great ideas for thi kind of thing.
Dont be all negative!
Beeeeeeeeeeeg Huuuuuuuuuuuuug! :)
Sun
GrimBlade2K
30-11-2000, 01:04
I'm the `way-too-much-time-on-hands` kind of guy, and I'd already thought a lot about the feasibility of this sort of league, and discussing it in IRC tonight, I feel it simply has to be attempted...this community is so charged with original, creative thinking that I see no reason whatsoever why this idea couldn't work.
So take heart, guys...we can make it work :)
Aardvark
30-11-2000, 04:42
I see possibilities of turn based strategy with FLF clans as units :P
Braindead
30-11-2000, 09:28
You mean FLF-style chess?
"Tarby to Nor 3"? :)
Hehe
anyway - i was in the mirc chat last night - some good ideas flying round about - this could be THE community to be part of
but we gotta be able to run it right
here's my tuppence worth
First - we have a mini tourney - this will give us an idea of how many clans we gunna have and give as a chance to look at relative rankings for the clans involved so when we come round to do leagues we have an idea who who's
also we get to check out all the spanking new admins we got
Second - league - we get a league up and running - divisions like the football league where you can be promoted and demoted - this has a few benefits 1 - eventually everyone will be playing teams in their ability range - and 2 - if this mod is gunna be as big as everyone thinks it will - we can add as many divisions as we need to cope .
Third - world domination affair - to my knowledge this will be the first league to be run like this - so we need to get a good team in place to make it happen and running the first 2 will give us the skills we need
We ahve so many great ideas floating round it - but we gotta learn to walk first before we run
hate to be a git, but i get the impression that the world domination type map is not going to be very newbie friendly.......
i can see the 'established' clans doing well and enjoying it, but all the new clans joining arent really gonna enjoy it....
and please let THIS mod be primarily about fun
[Edited by [AoD]slade_the_leveller on 30-11-2000 at 09:46 AM]
Aardvark
30-11-2000, 10:35
Hence I will suggest that the initial running of the 'domination' scenario be invite only, to test with some of the established and known reliable clans. :)
withn@il_
30-11-2000, 10:48
Originally posted by -LMS->BlackJack
hate to be a git, but i get the impression that the world domination type map is not going to be very newbie friendly.......
i can see the 'established' clans doing well and enjoying it, but all the new clans joining arent really gonna enjoy it....
and please let THIS mod be primarily about fun
true but......how are the new clans going to learn and play ttogether if they dont get any praccy?
ps blackjack dont know how i managed to edit your post (clicked on edit instead of quote) (maby coz i work form gameplay and mod one of our internal boards :E soz m8
Sowee all
I was being hassled IRL so i wasn't in the best of moods at the time.
Looks like you need to throw a tantrum to get some support round here ;)
Blimey :E
If this works I think we're going to have a ball. :)
The 'World War Idea' Sounds a good one. I'll have to read these again tonight and muse them over and bounce them around with my college mates. (It's great now being able to use the college network to play games again :E)
It'll be important to know what time scale you have then you can fit the idea to the time scale.
Also a question, Do you know how many clans there are out there and if there are any recruiting?
Ta fer yer time :E
-Idiot
We know t'will be very hard as we said in IRC this is why this is the grand plan and NOT the tourny to start things off, (which)also discussed that later on in the evening.
It will be very simple to organise, we just need to wait for some clan servers to appear first and get an exact idea of how many clans are around. Afterall this mod is barely 2 weeks old, we need a little time for everyone to discover it and make clans.
No need for walking m8, weve already hit the ground running :E
Sun
withn@il_
30-11-2000, 16:30
Originally posted by Si_Se
First - Second - league - we get a league up and running - divisions like the football league where you can be promoted and demoted - this has a few benefits 1 - eventually everyone will be playing teams in their ability range - and 2 - if this mod is gunna be as big as everyone thinks it will - we can add as many divisions as we need to cope .
i think this is a good idea m8 then as the newer/less experianced clans can gain something also and not be p****d on the the good one all the time .and when they improve they get promoted .and everybody fights against fair opposition .
:E
[HB]hiro
30-11-2000, 17:41
Would it be possible for the "ideas" people to post up the ideas in list form on the Web somewhere. If the information could be collated and then presented in readable form I think this would be really helpful.
No offence but sometimes it's hard to keep track of what's going on with different people replying all the time.
So you could have something like:
Our propositions for the FLF league are: 1,2,3 etc...
Idiot, if you want to get into a clan HB are going to reform for FLF by the looks of things although we'll be under another name. I'll give you a shout when we get things organised.
And as someone posted earlier, please let's make this one be FUN! :)
why not have different worlds for different levels of skill?
planet sh!te which is really simple, layout-wise
going up through the solar system?
to earth as the final prize....for the big clans
basically a different planet for every division, and we can make each planet fairly simple, so it doesnt have hundreds of territories
of course we could do this with continents too...
also if someone makes some xen maps these would fit in very well :)
just a suggestion
MetFish
GrimBlade2K
30-11-2000, 18:42
Unquestionably, this simply wouldn't work as the first attempt at clan competition within the community.
For a start, as has been pointed out, this is only going to work with committed, and generally skilled clans. So therefore, some sort of precursory league is a necessity. But I really do believe that this idea should, nay must, be pursued :)
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