PC MiniDisc drives [Archive] - Wireplay Community Forums

Anubis

14-01-2001, 22:23

Not sure if you wanted a music or data mini disc but Sony do a Mini disc that connects to your PC. I don't know what they are like, how much they cost or how good they but they are on the Sony (http://www.sony.co.uk) Website (model MDS-PC3, sorry I didn't link directly but it would lose some of the page.

Hope this helps, if you find out a price can you post it as I am interested as well. :D

kia.cs EnIgMa

14-01-2001, 22:32

ok here is the answer to your story.. i work for a retail compant [wont say witch one] and i speak to sony reps all the time, they did develop one about a year ago but because of cost i.e. almost a grand for the bloody thing they never took off, so basicly sone scraped the idea :-(

[)REA[)

15-01-2001, 00:37

I also work for an electrical retailer (won't say which one either ;)). A sony (laptop) rep I once spoke to said he did not now if they existed. Good eh.
Anyway, I would wan't it for data and music. How cool would that be eh?! Could fit into a small floppy bay to.
Ah, I really want one now!

[)REA[)

15-01-2001, 00:40

Bloody hell! a grand?!?! :eek: I'm sure they could make one for a PC at less than the cost a portable one. I'm sure your right, just seems odd.

[Edited by [)REA[) on 14-01-2001 at 11:42 PM]

X Cell

15-01-2001, 10:40

I donot think that the media is really suited to data anyway.

1. TOC would need to really big to save all the filename are locations on the disc. There could be easliy over 1000 files unlike the 99 track? limit there is on a music disc.

2. Access speed and transfer. Could have u have 32x speed MD reader, is the media up that?

3. Maybe most important. They be able to hold 74mins of music but that is compressed a bit like mp3. Given its the same sort of ratio as MP3 then max u could hold is about 65-100mb on one disc?

Even its up agaist 250mb ZIP drives etc and for 1 or more reasons above it not going to happen.

Shame, prove me wrong Sony :)

JGJones

15-01-2001, 11:24

There was some MD drives sold in USA...before Zip came out and they had the chance to be better than Zip drives...MD are a better format to use than the ZIP disk really but as mentioned above it was overpriced so didn't quite take off. A pity since a MD would have been a great format to use instead of Zip as it's so flexible (eg you can use them like tape or use them for your PC) Perhaps someone'll develop one someday now that MD are very popular these days?

--Prodigy--

15-01-2001, 13:40

JGJones

15-01-2001, 15:05

What would be the point in having a MD drive for your PC? The whole idea of the MD format is to record music.

They wouldn't work as a data storage device because of the TOC (although it's definately over 99 (about 250 I think)), they only store 120MB, they don't record at speed (when recording music it is done at the speed it is played). That's what I'd say anyway. However I have heard from a minidisc site that Sony are devloping a MD drive for PCs - basically it's just like a MD deck but one that fits into your PC. It wouldn't be used for data storage, just music recording.

120Mb on a MD...compared to 40Mb for Iomega Clik!? MD are slighty smaller too.

I see a lot of benefit for that and as for speed...easy to speed it up...CD's was originally designed for music only, what would the point of using them for PC would be and they're slow at 1x speed...look at them today.

Don't forget that the MD drive was made quite a few years ago...if they wasn't overpriced they might have taken off and with technology they'll get faster. Pity the price killed them off cos when I look at my Zip 100Mb disk (big'n'chunky)...compared to 120Mb on a MiniDisc...well...just a pity...:)

--Prodigy--

15-01-2001, 20:15

Yeh but you can allready get 120mb super-floppy drives, 1GB iomega drives and DAT drives - no point in having a MD one really.

[)REA[)

15-01-2001, 22:05

Yeah, but you can't put a super-floppy in a minidisc player!
It would be great for recording CD's, MP3 etc to MD. Plus a great way to back up stuff - thus killing many birds with one stone. Not at all pointless if you ask me. Anyway, seems like sony are going to start making them in the near future, and I will sure think hard about buying one. Anyway, whats all this about only having 120MB's? If you can compress music like a minidisc can - why not with data? Because that, my freinds, is exactly how zip disk work's.

-[Raven]-

15-01-2001, 23:20

I don't think the compression used in mini discs is exactly compatible with with data, as it does stuff like cutting out high/low frequencies and stuff.

X Cell

15-01-2001, 23:32

Its not pointless but there must be a reason why they have not been released or delayed. It could be a technical problem, cost or maybe its some sort of copyright thing.

The format should not allow 3rd generation coping. IE u should not be able to make a digital copy of 2nd Gen copyrighted material on a MD. (MD to MD) How can prevent that on a PC drive.

As for compression, sorry but no it does not work like that. MD music (I forget the name) uses loss compression like MP3. Which means it takes bits out of the music that u would not notice and so in fact reducing the quality. But gives great compression ratios.

This is ok for video, music and pictures but it cannot be used on any general data copied to a MD. U cannot take bits out of an EXE or DOC to reduce the size can u ;)

The real alterative is a realtime lossless compression like the one used in NTFS. And even that only compresses 2:1 on average.

[Edited by X Cell on 15-01-2001 at 10:39 PM]

--Prodigy--

16-01-2001, 18:58

It uses compression but it's very different from MP3 encoding - that just chops off the frequencies you can't here thus screwing up all the harmonics. That's amongst other things. ATRAC compression isn't lossy TO THE HUMAN EAR. I don't know anyone, myself included, that can tell the difference between a CD and my MD playing a track recorded from a CD.

JGJones

17-01-2001, 12:37

Originally posted by --Prodigy--
It uses compression but it's very different from MP3 encoding - that just chops off the frequencies you can't here thus screwing up all the harmonics. That's amongst other things. ATRAC compression isn't lossy TO THE HUMAN EAR. I don't know anyone, myself included, that can tell the difference between a CD and my MD playing a track recorded from a CD.

Chopping off frequency isn't as bad as claimed...in theory it's only supposed to cut off frequencies that you can't hear that's correct but only in certain places for example after a loud low beat, any high frequency sounds following that can't be heard at all by the human ear, so that get chopped out and so on. If the calculation program used is a good one, then it get very hard to tell a MP3 from a CD and they are improving all the time. MD (ATRAC) use the same method to do it along with some differences.

--Prodigy--

18-01-2001, 23:49

ATRAC uses a virtually lossless technique - and it's definately different from Mp3. Although you can't hear the frequencies that mp3 cuts out they are the harmonics that alter the waves you can here. They are either constructive or destructive depending on their phase and this changes the form of the waves we can here.
I don't know exactly how ATRAC encoding works but it is only compressed to a 6th the size of wav - not 11th like mp3 (standard)

X Cell

21-01-2001, 12:30

The simple fact is that if u took an mp3 enocded at 192k and a MD then played them both thought the same equipment, no normal person could possibley tell the difference.

Clarkeyboy

21-01-2001, 13:48

i prolly could, and btw, u can have 255 tracks on an MD, and in some cases u can have music recorded to MD with better quality than CD, read http://www.minidisc.org about it. And i cant see how a data drive would cost 1000 quid!!
U can get a MD recorder for 100 quid, and that has built in ADC and DAC and ATRAC codec. A data drive wouldnt need that, all it would need to do it have a laser and a magnet!

[)REA[)

24-01-2001, 22:32

Originally posted by -[Raven]-
I don't think the compression used in mini discs is exactly compatible with with data, as it does stuff like cutting out high/low frequencies and stuff.

Sure, but why would you try and compress data in the same way as sound?
You would surley use the normal MD compression when recording music and some other form of lossy or lossless compression depending on the file being compressed.

Also, as I saw on web site recently, Panasonic and possibly sony will be releasing a portable MD player/recorder that can also store and play MP3's. Now that sounds cool! Not sure how you will get the MP3's onto the disk. Probably a data cable of some sort.

[Edited by [)REA[) on 24-01-2001 at 09:35 PM]

Dr.Sebastian

25-01-2001, 01:32

Basically, even at 120MB, a media that is

- re-recordable
- small
- robust
- interchangeable with audio media

would, in my books, be A Good Thing. In fact, a perfect replacement for those godawful floppy drives we still use (and yes, I know about the newer 120MB floppy drives - or whatever they are - but the media is more expensive than MD)

These days you can pick up branded MDs for a quid apiece even in somewhere like Tempo.

And let's face it, just how handy would that be to be able to take your data MD round to your mate's house and give him the latest version of Counterstrike (full patch version) to save the poor sod having to download it himself? ;)

And as for audio quality, I can't hear the difference between CD and MD, but I can hear the difference between them and MP3...

Going back to the data thing - isn't it a MD that Neo gives the bloke at the door just before he Follows The White Rabbit?

[Edited by Dr.Sebastian on 25-01-2001 at 12:33 AM]

-Spike-

25-01-2001, 15:37

I dont think there would be a whole lot of point in a MD drive for the pc just for transferring music. If u really want to do that, u can already get a few soundcards which have optical lineouts that the MD recorders can connect to. Then u can transfer any music on your pc to MD without loss of quality. As for data, i cant see how a MD would be more useful than a CD-RW disc. For starters, a lot of ppl would need to have MD drives in their pc's before it became worthwhile getting one. And given that cdrw discs can be read in most pcs these days, hold more data, and are cheaper to buy, why would u want to use a MD to store data instead? Yes MD's are smaller, but thats only a benefit when you are actually using them in a portable player, since u can fit the player in your pocket, but i doubt anyone would really want to read a data MD while walking down the street :)

[)REA[)

25-01-2001, 16:20

Recordable MD players are usualy around £100 cheaper than non-recordable MD players. I'm sure that someone could produce and sell a PC MD drive for less than £100. If so, I would buy a player and A PC MD drive.

[HLnC]Jay-Dee

25-01-2001, 19:23

errrrm you've got that wrong
its the md players that start from about £100
the cheapest recorders i've seen are about £150

[)REA[)

25-01-2001, 20:13

Actually there is a player available for about £70. Made by Grundig. The cheapest decent recorder/player worth buying is the Panasonic one at £185 (also the smallest and lightest on the market at the mo). I know, I work part time in electrical retail.
Anyway, what would you rather have? A really great player and a MD drive in your PC that would also double up as a great data storage device with cheap re-recordable media, or just a really cheap and nasty recorder/player?Exactly.

-Skeet-

26-01-2001, 16:37

That's what he just said!!

Anyway I have my MD optically connected to my SoundBlaster Platinum on my PC and regularly record MP3s directly to it.

[)REA[)

26-01-2001, 17:31

Originally posted by peteski
That's what he just said!!

Er, no. It's not. Can you read? He said £100 and £150. I said £70 and £185. Can you see the difference? Doh.

[HLnC]Jay-Dee

26-01-2001, 20:21

:laugh: :D

-Skeet-

27-01-2001, 15:51

Originally posted by [)REA[)
Recordable MD players are usualy around £100 cheaper than non-recordable MD players

Originally posted by [)REA[)
Actually there is a player available for about £70. Made by Grundig. The cheapest decent recorder/player worth buying is the Panasonic one at £185

So what you saying? £70 is more expensive thatn £185 ?

[)REA[)

27-01-2001, 16:38

Why do think i'm saying that? i'm sorry if im not getting my point over very well here.
What i'm trying to say is that I would rather have a good portable MD player (not recordable) and a PC MD drive as well (if they were available) than a just crappy cheapo portable MD player/recorder on its own as, in theory, this could possibly be cheaper and more handy.
For example; i think buying a PC MD drive for £80 and a good player for arround £100 (total £180) is better than just buying a good MD player/recorder for £185 and not just because of the price difference.
This, of course, is assuming that if a PC MD drive was released it would be sold at a resonable price and i reckon that they could be produced and sold at arround £80 for the reasons already mentioned earlier in the thread. But i guess they would be well overpriced at first.

Does anyone understand what im trying to say here?!?!

-[Raven]-

27-01-2001, 17:03

I understand :)

Yes, it does make sense, as that was one of the reasons why I was interested in one in the first place.

I don't feel safe with a gadget with an RRP of £250 waggling around in my pocket, that could get crunched or lost. But I still wubs it.