OT- Garibaldi, Thomascope, FB and other technical boffins.... a minute of your time?

[Hellraisermk2]

Ok, I know this should have been posted in the technical or gaphics card forums, but I have more faith in the peeps who haunt this forum :)

Having a few problems and I was wondering if you had any ideas?

1. Just bought a Voodoo 5 5500 PCI. The problem is the frame rate. It won't go any higher than 30 fps, which is no better than my V3 3000. Thomascope and gari reccomended (for Half Life anyway) typing fps_max 61 in the console, but that doesn't increase it at all. And in other games it is no better either (especially Everquest where it has actually slowed the game down considerably).

Does anyone have any idea as to how to increase my frame rate.

2. My RAM.

I have 320mb of RAM. 1 256 chip and 1 64 chip (both pc100).
When I start the computer it recognises both. When I shut the computer down and come back to it... it recognises only the 64mb chip. The on;y way I've found to keep it recognising both chips is to take the back off the PC before I start and re-insert the RAM.

Again any ideas on how to keep it recognising both sets or are they just incompatibale? (I have a spare 64 chip as well... and it does the same thing with that.)

3. My computer.

I'm after upgrading so this is a general question. Here is my current system:

AMD K6-2 500
320 RAM (when it works)
Voodoo 5 5500
8 gig HD
8 speed DVD
crap mother board (not sure of make)
SB 64.

This is what I am going to upgrade it to:

AMD T-Bird 1.2ghz (£233.83) + fan (£6.46)
SB 1024 (£39.95)
Abit KT7 pro Duron/T.bird Motherboard + o/b raidcard ATA100 ATX (£126.90)
Keeping my HD, DVD and Voodoo card :)

Total cost of upgrade: £407.67

Is the price of the upgrade reasonable or am I being right royaly ripped off?

Oh yes, and is the motherboard any good (I don't have the first clue about them :{

Again sorry I've posted here, but I trust more people here than over at the technical forums.

Thanks for any help :)

[BoGeYMaN]

well i can only really help you on the increasing fps in half life.......or i presume CS..


set fps_max at 100 and also set fps_modem at 100 you need to change both commmands, well i did anyway. I dont think the eye can distinguish abouve about 70 fps anyway, but if you cap it at 100, it should show you the max fps you can get anyway.

Just out of interest, does your fps stay constanly at 30 and never drop below, as that will indicate that it is being capped at a low value. If it only reaches 30 sometime and is usually around 20 ish, then it will be some other problem.

Other things are

-run HL in open GL mode, not Direct3D. I run at a res of 800x600 and get about 50 fps on me voodoo 3000 and AMD ath. 500

-Go to http://www.wicked3d.com and download their drivers, they are replacemtn divers for the openGl patch and called wickedGL, just follow the links on the main page (bottom of te nav bar i think). Some people have reported 200% better fps with these. I use them, and they really are great.

if you are still gettting crap fps go to http://www.tweak3d.net i think, and use their half life autoexec creator. This will give you the best 'fps reducing' commands to insert into your config.

hope this helps


just as an after thought, if you really want to see if your pc is underperforming, I suggest you benchmark it at http://www.madonion.com, the download is about 20 megs, but worth it. I will runs tests on your machine, and give you a score in the end which relates to how good it is for gaming. You can then compare your score to others with the same computer and peripherals, and hence see if your computer is good/bad indifferent for it's setup.

[Edited by BoGeYMaN on 17-01-2001 at 01:23 PM]

[[TSQN] Fu11]

Originally posted by Hellraisermk2
Just bought a Voodoo 5 5500 PCI.

my birthday present?! aww you should have! :E

[Hellraisermk2]

Bogeyman, thanks for the info I'll give it a try, and the frame rate never goes above 30, but drops all over the place between 8fps and 30fps.

I know I've only got a 500 processor, but surely it wouldn't cause that much of a problem?

And fu11.... hehe... it only cost me £100 (one helluva bargian if you ask me!!)... EB are selling them darn cheap due to the take over. I got the last one in the whole of greater manchester (at that price)... I went to Oldham, then Bolton, then Trafford, then Manchester and then finally to Bury in search of an EB with 1 in stock :)

Made me a happy man did that card!!!

[Edited by Hellraisermk2 on 17-01-2001 at 01:36 PM]

[334th Lenagh]

Is the V5 not heavily processor dependent ?

i.e. you may not have the umpf such a bitch of a card needs ?

[Hellraisermk2]

Thats what I thought. However, I did think that my FPS would increase, even if only slightly? I'm not expecting 100 fps (well at least not until I get the 1.2 t-bird fitted)... but expected at least an extra 20fps (to around 50fps).

And does anyone have any idea why it could have slowed everquest down?

[antibbfc]

Its defo your CPU mate. I have a K6-400, overclocked it to 500, and added a V4 4500. My framerate only improved slightly from my Voodoo 2 card! But getting that ne MB and CPU will make a BIG difference.

[FlyinBrick]

M/board definitely sounds dodgy as far as that ram is concerned. Highly unlikely to have two faulty Simms/Dimms with exactly the same bug. Either that, or there's some weird and wonderful settings in your bios, which I doubt very much.
Another thing, lets say it is a dodgy M/B, then your whole PCI/Memory bus will be underperforming, which would explain your poor framerates.

As for your new hardware, personally, I'd not bother with the 1.2 T.Bird, I'd go for the 1 Ghz instead. Theres gonna be hardly any difference in performance at that level, but there will be a big difference in price! (About £100 I think)

Try going to http://www.overclockers.co.uk/ they usually have a M/board + CPU bundle deal going which could save you quite a bit.
They also happen to be a very reliable internet company from my own experience and from lots of others that I've read.

[Edited by FlyinBrick on 17-01-2001 at 02:48 PM]

[Hellraisermk2]

Thanks for the help :)

Would have taken 6 years to get this amount of replies on the other forums :).

FB... I think you are right... it is a crap mother board anyway (it was my first PC and I made the HUGE mistake of buying it from SWINE (time) computers... whose MB's don't have an AGP slot and have hardly any slots for upgrades and insist on intergrating everything with the MB... like the SB 64 and the crap ATI 8mb 3d (my arse 3d)card)


One other problem now though... I downloaded those wicked3d drivers... installed them and told it to install them in Half Life. When I go in HL now... in the Video options the WickedGL drivers do not show, and OpenGL no longer works (it says it is no longer compatible with my card).

I'm a bit of a PC dunce, but I know more than the average person and find it hard to believe that all these problems are caused by myself :{

Any ideas with the WickedGL drivers and OpenGL? :{

[Hellraisermk2]

Oooooo FB... there are some excellent deals on that web page... but I have one reservation?? How hard is it to fit a new MB, processor and fan yourself?? (Considering it's something I've never done)

Or more to the point, would someone be willing to guide me through the process if I attempted it myself?

[Garibaldi]

Yeah antibbfc and Len are spot on. The K6/2 is the prob. I've recently upgraded from a K6/2 450 to an Athlon 800 and it makes a ridiculous difference to 3d games even while I was still using my Voodoo3 2000 PCI :)

btw I got my Voodoo5500 PCI from EB and it was the last one AND I had a £10 voucher for christmas so it really cost me only £90 :E .

For anyone else who is interested ALL the 3dfx cards are going at silly prices at Electronics Boutique. And don't worry about PCI versions because the difference in performance compared to AGP is very small (1 or 2 FPS) .

Voodoo 3000 ........ £49
Voodoo 3500 TV..... £69
Voodoo 4500 ....... £79
Voodoo 5500 ....... £99

Good Luck! :)

Oh yeah, and you know most places do a 'price match' these days....?
I went to Dixons to try get another V5500 for a friend as EB had sold out and I asked them to price match with EB's £99 <ahem> (Dixons were still selling them at £249 !).
Needless to say the look I got from the manager let me know that he thought I was a lying git and that he'd probably have me chucked out if I stuck around.
Worth a try I suppose :E

[FlyinBrick]

If you can fit a Voodoo5, then you can fit the rest almost as easily!

If you're getting the Abit KT7, then you're in luck. Because all the settings for the CPU voltages etc. are done by software rather than jumpers, much easier! (I've got a KT7 btw.)

If you struggle, giz a shout and I'll guide you thru it, though I doubt you'd really need any help.

[Hellraisermk2]

Right Gari, FB... you've sold me the idea then :)

ABIT KT7 and 1ghz T-bird here I come.

Erm, one thing though... FB... which deal would you go for on that page (I have my credit card ready and was kinda hoping for a little help on choosing). Was looking at the 1ghz deals for around 330 squid?

Just like to thank everyone for all the help :)

[FlyinBrick]

Yeah the 1Ghz, G'teed to 1.2 seems a good deal. Even without the O/Clock I think thats a good price for a 1Ghz/KT7 raid deal. You could save £8 by going for a non raid deal, but with ATA100 on the raid version, it's worth the added extra.
Adding it all up, you've got a better M/board and fan and saved about £33 ish...But before you commit your cash etc. got to the hardware fourum and see if anyone else knows a cheaper/better place. http://forums.gameplay.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=5
There's some good peeps in there.

[Hellraisermk2]

I've already been looking :)... it seems as though the people over there love them to bits... so I've taken the plunge and gone for a 1ghz g'teed to 1.2 with the KT7 MB.

One thing I want to know is... they say it's g'teed to 1.2ghz... does that mean as soon as I install it it should run around that speed (surely they can't guaruntee spot on 1.2??) or will I have to tweak it beyond all recognition???

Aand FB... could I have your ICQ?? (it comes tommorrow so you may be getting me pestering you after I've managed to turn my PC into a microwave... only if you wouldn't mind helping me out if I'm in desperate need?)



/me walks off looking forwards to tommorrow (and remembers that he wasn't suppossed to upgrade until after march... oh well... no time like the present <cough cough>)

[FlyinBrick]

19041325

No it will not be preset at 1.2ghz, you will have to configure that yourself..very easy.
A few words of advise, install CPU & Fan on the M/B bfore you put it in it's case. READ the manual!!! Take it slowly, and if you're having to force anything in, then it's WRONG!
Read the manual again!!!
Once the M/B is in the case, connect H/drives etc. one at a time, double checking the leads are going in the correct way around.
Read the Feckin manual!!!
Once Graphic cards etc. are in do NOT attempt to overclock, run the system at minimum specs first, and make sure everything works.
Did I tell you to read the manual???
Once everything is running stable, then start to set it to ntour normal settings. (ie: the M/board should start at 5 x 100 Mhz, (500Mhz) up this to your default CPU speed of 10 x 100 Mhz.) Try the system again.

And so on etc.

Here's another good site for you which explains things in a lot more detail than I have done.

http://www.amdworld.co.uk/oc.htm

Hope this helps..

P.S. I won't be back from work tommorow till 5/6ish, so wait till then if you neeed my help, but theres's plenty on here who can sort you out I'm sure.


Btw, did I mention READ THE FRIGGIN MANUAL???? :P

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Originally posted by Hellraisermk2


Aand FB... could I have your ICQ?? (it comes tommorrow so you may be getting me pestering you after I've managed to turn my PC into a microwave... only if you wouldn't mind helping me out if I'm in desperate need?)



/me walks off looking forwards to tommorrow (and remembers that he wasn't suppossed to upgrade until after march... oh well... no time like the present <cough cough>)

I suppose this means you won't be up for training :)

If I can replace a motherboard and processor then so can you. Of course, both my hard drives went belly up two weeks later, but that was down to the RAM being dodgy.

BTW, regarding fps, I thought the human eye only processes about 25 fps, so shouldn't that mean anything greater than that is redundant?

[Mebe]

Nowt wrong with the processor, its just that recent voodoo cards are a load of rubbish.

I have a celeron (366 overclocked to 450)... not exactly state of the art.

CS framerate was 30ish and dropping

Add Geforce2... frame rate 70+fps @ 1024x768

A decent graphics card shouldn't need a massive processor to get reasonable fps. I can accept that a fast processor will get better fps out of the same card but it should be able to produce reasonable results with a basic processor.

Look to the configuration and drivers of the card. Fiddle with whether you use Direct3D or OpenGL etc.

[FlyinBrick]

JJ, anything above 25 fps looks seamless, anything up to 70 fps is a lot more fluid. Anything above that is more or less redundant.

[Garibaldi]

Mebe, even a GeForce2 wouldn't really help him much. Sure he'll be able to bang the resolution and eye-candy right up but the frames per second will be stuck at what the K6/2 can send out.
Your Celeron is way better than the K6/2 for 3D games.
Latest Voodoo cards can't compete with Geforce2 but slating them as rubbish is a bit daft really. Especially at the above prices :)

[Hellraisermk2]

Cheers FB... you've proved invaluable :)... and I take it reading the manual is something you believe important LOL

And JJ I hope I am there for praccy.... I finish uni at 3 tommorrow so I'll start on upgrading as soon as I get home :) (thats if it has arrived)... so if all goes well, I can't see any reason why I shouldn't be there :)... if I can't make it... I'll hijack my brothers PC and let you know (or if he is in a good enough mood use it to attend practice).

Mebe... I dunno if it is the processor... I've been doing the rounds around various forums, and alot of people seem to have the same problem with the K6-2 and V5... so I'm hoping the impending upgrade will bring out its full potential.

[thomascope]

hmmm. i got p2 400 with V5 AGP and it gets about 45fps in CS. that wicked 3d makes a HUGE difference m8 and so do the latest drivers.

i got my V5 for £150 2nd hand <sigh>

PS that a VERY good price for tbird 1.2, where u getting it from?

[Hellraisermk2]

MicroDirect in Manchester m8 for the T-bird 1.2

Myself, I've gone for a 1ghz from overclockers.com which hopefully I can take up to 1.2

[Blade]

It truly amazes me how these big companies such has PC World, etc can sell £1400 computers with m/b that have intergrated graphic cards and soundcards,modems,everytime i've been around to upgrade a clients hardrive,dvd rom drive,etc they 90% of the time say can i upgrade my graphics card or simm memory..."sorry no" is usely the reply...just no upgradeability in this computers for all there fancy cases..for that amount of money you want something you can keep a good while.

[GibsonXXI]

I have a freind at work who bought an Athlon system from time...

what a heap of sh1t it was too, they had it back about 6 times, replaced everything, including the memory, m/b, gfx card, etc.

They never even thought about the PSU though. I do expect the reason for his carp performance was a 250w Power Supply, but not having had the chance to see the system myself i couldn't say.

I have a new system build under way, including the following components:

AMD Athlon 1GHz
ABIT KT7-RAID AGP4x / DMA66-100 (Up to 8 IDE Devices)
256MB Crucial PC133 CAS2 SDRAM
1x Quantum LCT15 IDE DMA66 HD

as well as the CDRW and Live! Platinum from my current setup.

Havn't built it as yet as i'm holding out for a GeForce 2 Ultra (and im strapped for cash ATM)

but i did find the *Ultimate* KT7 FAQ, address below.

http://www.apushardware.com/faqs/kt7faq/kt7faq.htm

it covers every aspect of the m/b and there is a printer freindly version available... if you have enough ink and paper to print the 150 odd pages it amounts to :E

Regards,

[Edited by GibsonXXI on 19-01-2001 at 09:15 PM]