Equal lag for all !

[clara]

Bit of a pub debate needs resolving - Due to reasons best known to BT and my bank manager, I am stuck with a 56k modem for the moment, so I wondered is it technically possible for a selected game server to detect every online player’s ping rate / lag in an online game, and handicap those with low ping rates to ensure the same ping for all players and fair gameplay?

Also is the inequality in downstream and upstream aspect of ADSL etc. a problem for gaming – do they both need to be as fast as each other?

Any help with these appreciated.

[[PunK]]

When I used a modem I used to think about that.

Now I have a ping of 50ms I realise what a stupid idea it is =]

It's like saying all the cars should be toned down to the speed of the slowest car in a race. And with your idea, the people with broadband would still get a stable game with no freezing but with a tiny bit of latency. I mean think about it... 200ms is such a short amount of time. Although letency/ping itself doesn't make that much difference (milliseconds) they are a good measure of how stable the connection is.

[deejaycee]

Counterstrike uses a new netcode technique that attempts to do this, and it is more playable than most games on a modem.
However, it's not without it's problems.....

[Slime]

Which Pub ? Just so i don't go in there and mention i'm on ADSL ;)

[deejaycee]

^^^ :P

When surfing/playing games etc, hardly any data gets sent, it is mostly all recieved. When surfing, the data sent is basically a CRC confirmation to say the data was recieved ok. When playing games, it is lots of tiny packets of information, slightly more than when surfing, that get sent, this includes similiar CRC confirmation and also your game data (information telling the server where you are, what gun you've got etc etc). What you recieve is everyone's information, so roughly translate this to multiplying your data sent by the number of players there are and you can see that even when playing games, you don't need nearly as much bandwidth upstream as you do downstream. If you play Counterstrike, you can use the "netgraph" function to keep a track of how much data is coming and going.

Hope this gets you a few pints :)

[Molloy]

Yeah you can use netgraph.

If you're happy with 1fps that is :)

[deejaycee]

rofl, I didn't realise this was the cause of my FPS woes till I turned it off!! But still useful to gain a few pints in this debate :P

[clara]

Thanks for the info guys.

Of course some car racing formulas do ensure that everybody has the same equipment – i.e. theoretically the same speed cars – as that means that the most skilful driver (player) wins.

Also if I am playing against somebody in the States, and assuming we have the same connection software / hardware etc., and just one hop each to the server is in the States, then how mush lag is caused simply by the extra distance of my connection to the server from the UK??

[Leady]

A minimum of 100ms extra is added for playing on a US server

[deejaycee]

Because you are travelling further, your ping will be higher as it will take longer for your data to get there and back. If it is a good digital connection, you should get no lag, if your on modem, you might get packet loss (in this example it is less likely as you are only one hop away) which will result in "lag" Sometimes, even on a good digital connection you will still get lag as some packets will inevitabely get dropped along the way due to "routers flushing" and other bains of the internet.

As for your sports car analogy - this is what seperates PCs and the upcoming consoles. All online gaming with a console will be an even playing field (damned good thing), but with PCs, you can enhance the game to unimaginable heights if you want by the ability to do various upgrades.

Two factors are important in online gaming - your connection and your system. With consoles the system is obviously the same, and the connection will most likely be broadband (the axed dreamcast is an exception). Either way, you will have the choice of what connection you use, depending on primarily finance available and secondly, how much you really really want a good connex. I personnally opted for ISDN as that's the best available in my area. This leaves us with what system. Again, it's a case of what you are willing to pay to what gain. I personally upgraded my graphics card so that I could play Counterstrike at 1024x768 smoothly, I also got myself a Razor Boomslang mouse as this suited my style of play better. What I do wish for is a faster processor and will buy one when the time is right.

I feel that it is a development cycle - you play the game, you like it, you practice a bit more, you feel that you are being held back by your fps, you buy new graphics card, you practice a bit more, you feel that EAX support suits your style of play, you buy a Live! card, etc etc etc.

It's all a case of money at the end of the day. There's no point in everyone having ninja computers if it's only us nerds that really take advantage of them, and as for the comment "we can't all afford what we want", don't I know it! But, if you play the game enough and love it enough, then you will save and do everything you can so you can have that processor upgrade :)

soz to go on, but I was just talking on this subject with someone before I came on here, so thought I'd blurt it out while it was fresh

:)

[[PunK]]

No you f00li0s

Don't use net_graph 1 or 2 cos that messes up your FPS.
What you want to do is use net_graph 3. This is purely text with no diagram and no effect on FPS. It gives the following info: FPS, ping (this ping reading is usually lower than the one displayed on the scoreboard, i don't know why), rate of data coming in and out in K/s, and some more stuff I don't understand.

You can also change its position to some extent:
net_graphpos 1 - bottom right
net_graphpos 2 - bottom middle (my setting)
net_graphpos 3 - bottom left

It may be the other way round but I'm pretty sure 2 is the one for bottom middle.

[clara]

OK – I’m starting to line up the pints now, this is excellent stuff. Cheers

Now I understand that we will probably never lose the 100ms time delay to States due to the physical distances involved, (and the additional actual standard dial up modem inbuilt latency of another 100ms), but does anybody – maybe Slime – know anything more about the PowerPlay proposal from Cisco?

+ the car racing analogy / debate gets interesting when you compare Formula 1 (individual manufacturers), with say the old Formula Vauxhall / Audi (where the cars are “identical”) etc. In Formula 1 there is always controversy when the number of tyre manufacturers fluctuates (from one last year to two this year)as many people campaigned to keep just one tyre manufacturer this year in the hope that the field was kept more evenly balanced. In Formula 1 money talks in these cases, but in online gaming why not try technical fixes to keep the playing field level for those PC gamers who want to fairly challenge console players at Quake – you “Formula 1” gamers can have your own fun elsewhere.

[theV0iCe]

umm, if u use net_graph "3" then that graph takes up hardly any FPS whilst displaying the most important info. Im on ISDN and i find that FPS is just as important as ping..im soon upgrading to a p3 800 hopefully. I may be an LPB but it costs me. Its so easy to blame the fact that ur crap on ur sys. specs or ping. Being an LPB won't instantly make u l33t but it does help ppl who already have skill. Soz if thats a bit off topic :)