Empreror's New Groove

[JackG2]

Bah! I watched this disney flick the other night. I thought it to be funny...... is it wrong for me to like an animated Disney film?!

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

I really enjoyed that film!

I watched at the cinema with my girlfriend and we both thought it was very good. :)

[Karen]

I loved it too. Disney films are great, they are made primarily for the kids but with an understanding that adults watch them, so there is the added element of subtle adult humour. I started collecting Disney Classics on video but gave up as I'd be as well starting a DVD collection.

[[B-A]Silent.Partner]

This is actually a very enjoyable disney movie; quite different from the previous movies in that it has no song pieces at all throughout the movie (not mentioning the opening and ending stuff), and none of that overblown "we've gotta have a romantic storyline between a male and female (be they man or beast)", which got kind of old at one point. Not that I find all disney movies repulsive, far from it, but what started nicely with stuff like the Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast some years ago culminated in horrors like Hercules or Pocahontas where it was obvious that someone in marketing was thinking "that formula worked once, lets use it again and again and again, making it bigger and bigger every single time".
With the Emperors new Groove, there was finally a return to a more normal disney cartoon, and it did have me laughing all throughout. James Spade as llama, unbelievably funny...

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

Originally posted by ~-_Avenging Angel_-~
I loved it too. Disney films are great, they are made primarily for the kids but with an understanding that adults watch them, so there is the added element of subtle adult humour.

Can't agree more!! :)

[Karen]

Ta boba ;)


woooh Silent.partner, slow down, maybe its time you took a step back.
Some people are so heavily into films these days that they can't seem to see the film for the production, or something like that (you know, the whole wood for the trees thing ;)).

Anyway, when your critcising a film, you have to remember it's target audience and what they like. Like I said, Disney films are primarily for kids and they enjoy having "song pieces all through the movie" in fact, you'll find that most disney films have sing-a-long spin offs, which are themselves fairly popular.

As for the recurring theme, well i think you'll find that disney are not the only ones guilty of this as most films these days tend to fall into one of very few categories and in my opinion Disney should have more of an allowance for this considering that they are limited in what they can show young viewers.

lol, it's kinda like someone saying that Debbie does Dallas is poor because its just one of they films were a woman gets her kit off and starts bonking everything in sight. ie. It's what the audience want. :)

[Shadow Templar]

I really like Hercules ... it had one of the best bad guys of all time in it. And with lines such as 'The son of my most hated rival trapped for ever in a swirling river of death ... is there a downside to this?' its a great fun!

I really want to see the emporores new groove, it looks great fun and I am a great fan of Disney, and animation in general. Disney is great to watch with girlfriends I must admit, and they also have greats like Pixar under their wing!

[JackG2]

Originally posted by [B-A]Silent.Partner
James Spade as llama, unbelievably funny...


It's David Spade.

Good. I'm not alone..... okay, what about "Toy Story"? I found this film to also be funny. Anyone else?

[[B-A]Silent.Partner]

Angel, I wasn't criticizing the Emperors new Groove, in fact, I said I liked it very much, since compared to earlier efforts, it shone out. Of course, that means I put the other movies that came before it in a lower status, and did speak out on how I perceived them to be cash ins on a proven concept.
Taking the whole "target audience" issue aside for a moment, let's look at not being able to see the film, or recurring themes. What I meant specifically was that you get a certain expectation with movies, a certain feeling that you have when you go watch a movie. If you go to see a disney movie, you expect to see something that the whole family can watch, for instance, not a hong kong style action movie where blood splatters all over the screen. In much the same way, you could remember having quality time over a cup of coffee with your parents or a good friend every once in a while when you drink a specific brand of coffee. That's one of those intangibles, where you recall a particular feeling or emotion you had, and where you can sink back in it if it is a good feeling and relax with a smile.
As such, with disney movies, I'm sure everyone has memories from earlier disney movies; they've simply been around too long for it. I've seen a lot of disney movies in the past, from growing up to the point in life where I am now, and I've always associated the movies with the memories I had of earlier movies, and earlier experiences. Obviously, just like the Debbie does Dallas you refer to, the plot is wellknown in advance, since it is a disney movie after all; I suspect that if I would look clearly at my reasons for going, I'd probably go more to recall those earlier moments in time when I watched disneys in other circumstances than to be amazed at every turn at clever plot twists. The main thrust of my point is that for me, disney movies were and still are connected to good memories, to fun and mostly to entertainment of a certain level of quality.
Take Beauty and the Beast for instance and Hercules. If we look only at song and dance, than Hercules is volume volume volume all over, whilst Beauty and the Beast, though also filled with song, gives you much more quality in terms of that alone. If I look at sing a longs, I've been bombarded over the years with more Lion King songs or Little Mermaid stuff than things like Pocahontas or Hercules; I'd be surprised if you had a huge difference in experience there. Hell, even Jungle Book is bigger in that respect than most of the current disney movies that have been put out over the last years.
Now, you can obviously make the point that having the volume volume volume type of stuff in Hercules ("if we prop in enough things we think are funny and make the characters sing until the voice actors die for breath, it must be good") is a production choice by the people who made the movie, and thus probably a production obsession for me, since I find Hercules a lesser movie by far compared to earlier disney movies I've seen. The problem there is that although in hindsight that is one of the things I could have said, my reason for disdaining earlier efforts was due to the feeling I got from the volume volume volume effect. It felt like a sellout from the quality that earlier disney movies so obviously have, not a sellout to the target audience, but a sellout to commercialism that thrives on providing easy answers, simple plots and lots of marketing. For me, the current disney began to be associated with crappy animations since Hercules, which made me miss earlier movies even more, and as such, a movie like the Emperors new Groove was for me a fresh breath, since it did restore some of that feelgood feeling I had before.
Now, to that target audience thing. As you said, they are primarily for kids, and sing a longs score big. As to the sing a longs, I think I covered that a bit before; I never objected to songs in disney movies, I object to the volume of them and the quality. As to target audience, I think kids primarily isn't perhaps the best definition. The best one would probably involve something longwinded which would ultimately refer to the kid in all of us. Sure, kids get the most out of watching disney cartoons, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't watch disney cartoons once in a while simply to sink back and forget everything else and remember only those disney afternoons, or just be entertained on a loving basic level. I'm sure you don't collect disney movies only because your kids watch em (well, assuming you have kids there for a moment), but because they connect with you on a certain level as well (aside from the whole "but I just like them" issue).
Having said all that, lets look at the wood for trees thing. I didn't mention anything like disney blatantly screwing up history lines like Hercules, or Pocahontas, Tarzan (well, not history there, but you know what I mean), things like that. Nor did I mention some of the overblown statements that get behind those movies, or framerate or anything. Not because I don't notice them, but because I really don't care about that when it comes to disney. If I'd started out about those things and slapped on some fanatic propaganda on moviemaking in general, I'd have understood your worries about my involvement with movies and apparant lack of sinking into them and simply be carried along with the story. I didn't do those things however; I simply stated that I was very gratified that disney had gotten back to what they did best, which is tell a nice story and make you leave the theatre with a smile on your face instead of the somewhat more marketing sellout things they've done lately.
It's funny that you pick a movie like Debbie does Dallas as an example of giving in to target audiences, because I think that's actually a comparison you could make with disney movies as well. The last few efforts (well, aside from tarzan maybe) felt more like a Debbie does Dallas kind of movie than like a disney movie. I mean, take a good love story movie; there's a huge difference between a good love story movie and Debbie does Dallas, because with Debbie, we only concentrate on one thing, while in a good love story there's this whole tapestry of things where boinking anyone in sight is hardly the main thrust of the thing. As such, I think the same thing can be said of the disney movies in terms of differing quality, where some of them are not even approximations of the full enjoyment you get from normal disney movies.
Anyways, I've already written way more than I wanted to spend on this posting; what I'm trying to say is that you misread my words, and took the wrong conclusions from them. With disney movies, I go for the film itself, not because person X sang the songs in them or person Y did the voice acting but because I like the simple feel of watching the movie. The Emperors new Groove restored that feeling after a long time of for me rather disappointing disney animations, and that disappointment had nothing to do with the fanaticism label you so swiftly slap onto me, but with the feeling that disney was losing it's old magical touch that drew me in so many times before. Damn it, after all this, I now have to drop my work and go back home to watch disney movies again; talking about them has made me want to see some of them again.

[Karen]

ok, I'm sorry I said you look too far into things, I was obviously wrong. I must've just imagined reading the forums equivalent of war and peace. ;)

For what its worth, I knew you weren't talking about emperors new groove. :)



If you go to see a disney movie, you expect to see something that the whole family can watch, for instance, not a hong kong style action movie where blood splatters all over the screen.

ok, I'm not very good at explaining myself but erm, thats kinda what I was saying when I spoke about them being limited in the themes they can follow.

As for the rest of the stuff, yes, some are better than others but I wouldn't say any of them are "repusive" they achived what they set out to do and thats entertain children. It doesn't matter if you watch them to take you back to your childhood days. You can live in the memories but you no longer see things the way a child does. All I am saying is that when I see my son watching a film and hes sitting there with the broadest smile on his face and laughing his wee heart out, well that to me, makes me believe that disney have done something right.

[Gopher]

Originally posted by [B-A]Silent.Partner
Angel, I wasn't criticizing the Emperors new Groove, in fact, I said I liked it very much, since compared to earlier efforts, it shone out. Of course, that means I put the other movies that came before it in a lower status, and did speak out on how I perceived them to be cash ins on a proven concept.
Taking the whole "target audience" issue aside for a moment, let's look at not being able to see the film, or recurring themes. What I meant specifically was that you get a certain expectation with movies, a certain feeling that you have when you go watch a movie. If you go to see a disney movie, you expect to see something that the whole family can watch, for instance, not a hong kong style action movie where blood splatters all over the screen. In much the same way, you could remember having quality time over a cup of coffee with your parents or a good friend every once in a while when you drink a specific brand of coffee. That's one of those intangibles, where you recall a particular feeling or emotion you had, and where you can sink back in it if it is a good feeling and relax with a smile.
As such, with disney movies, I'm sure everyone has memories from earlier disney movies; they've simply been around too long for it. I've seen a lot of disney movies in the past, from growing up to the point in life where I am now, and I've always associated the movies with the memories I had of earlier movies, and earlier experiences. Obviously, just like the Debbie does Dallas you refer to, the plot is wellknown in advance, since it is a disney movie after all; I suspect that if I would look clearly at my reasons for going, I'd probably go more to recall those earlier moments in time when I watched disneys in other circumstances than to be amazed at every turn at clever plot twists. The main thrust of my point is that for me, disney movies were and still are connected to good memories, to fun and mostly to entertainment of a certain level of quality.
Take Beauty and the Beast for instance and Hercules. If we look only at song and dance, than Hercules is volume volume volume all over, whilst Beauty and the Beast, though also filled with song, gives you much more quality in terms of that alone. If I look at sing a longs, I've been bombarded over the years with more Lion King songs or Little Mermaid stuff than things like Pocahontas or Hercules; I'd be surprised if you had a huge difference in experience there. Hell, even Jungle Book is bigger in that respect than most of the current disney movies that have been put out over the last years.
Now, you can obviously make the point that having the volume volume volume type of stuff in Hercules ("if we prop in enough things we think are funny and make the characters sing until the voice actors die for breath, it must be good") is a production choice by the people who made the movie, and thus probably a production obsession for me, since I find Hercules a lesser movie by far compared to earlier disney movies I've seen. The problem there is that although in hindsight that is one of the things I could have said, my reason for disdaining earlier efforts was due to the feeling I got from the volume volume volume effect. It felt like a sellout from the quality that earlier disney movies so obviously have, not a sellout to the target audience, but a sellout to commercialism that thrives on providing easy answers, simple plots and lots of marketing. For me, the current disney began to be associated with crappy animations since Hercules, which made me miss earlier movies even more, and as such, a movie like the Emperors new Groove was for me a fresh breath, since it did restore some of that feelgood feeling I had before.
Now, to that target audience thing. As you said, they are primarily for kids, and sing a longs score big. As to the sing a longs, I think I covered that a bit before; I never objected to songs in disney movies, I object to the volume of them and the quality. As to target audience, I think kids primarily isn't perhaps the best definition. The best one would probably involve something longwinded which would ultimately refer to the kid in all of us. Sure, kids get the most out of watching disney cartoons, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't watch disney cartoons once in a while simply to sink back and forget everything else and remember only those disney afternoons, or just be entertained on a loving basic level. I'm sure you don't collect disney movies only because your kids watch em (well, assuming you have kids there for a moment), but because they connect with you on a certain level as well (aside from the whole "but I just like them" issue).
Having said all that, lets look at the wood for trees thing. I didn't mention anything like disney blatantly screwing up history lines like Hercules, or Pocahontas, Tarzan (well, not history there, but you know what I mean), things like that. Nor did I mention some of the overblown statements that get behind those movies, or framerate or anything. Not because I don't notice them, but because I really don't care about that when it comes to disney. If I'd started out about those things and slapped on some fanatic propaganda on moviemaking in general, I'd have understood your worries about my involvement with movies and apparant lack of sinking into them and simply be carried along with the story. I didn't do those things however; I simply stated that I was very gratified that disney had gotten back to what they did best, which is tell a nice story and make you leave the theatre with a smile on your face instead of the somewhat more marketing sellout things they've done lately.
It's funny that you pick a movie like Debbie does Dallas as an example of giving in to target audiences, because I think that's actually a comparison you could make with disney movies as well. The last few efforts (well, aside from tarzan maybe) felt more like a Debbie does Dallas kind of movie than like a disney movie. I mean, take a good love story movie; there's a huge difference between a good love story movie and Debbie does Dallas, because with Debbie, we only concentrate on one thing, while in a good love story there's this whole tapestry of things where boinking anyone in sight is hardly the main thrust of the thing. As such, I think the same thing can be said of the disney movies in terms of differing quality, where some of them are not even approximations of the full enjoyment you get from normal disney movies.
Anyways, I've already written way more than I wanted to spend on this posting; what I'm trying to say is that you misread my words, and took the wrong conclusions from them. With disney movies, I go for the film itself, not because person X sang the songs in them or person Y did the voice acting but because I like the simple feel of watching the movie. The Emperors new Groove restored that feeling after a long time of for me rather disappointing disney animations, and that disappointment had nothing to do with the fanaticism label you so swiftly slap onto me, but with the feeling that disney was losing it's old magical touch that drew me in so many times before. Damn it, after all this, I now have to drop my work and go back home to watch disney movies again; talking about them has made me want to see some of them again.

is there an "edited for short attention spanned people" version?? :E

[Shadow Templar]

Argh what is that massive block of text, it hurts my eyes just looking at it!

Well I just had a look at Atlantis, also by Disney ... not their average film .... its a PG!!! A Disney cartoon a PG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JackG2]

Very diffrent. Was it any good?

[Karen]

Toy Story is a PG, if that counts and the black cauldron probably should have been a PG. Well, my son was a bit scared of it at first. :)

[Shadow Templar]

What was the black cauldron about ...?

[Karen]

this should tell you all you need to know about it. :)

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/6876/

[JackG2]

Angel, I looked at the back of my copy of "Toy Story" and it says it's rated G.

[Karen]

sheesh, you can tell your american. :)

*wee hint* you don't get a "G" in the UK.

[JackG2]

Ogg.... I should of known. The censors over there seem a bit picky...... like Grumpster.... :hmph:

[Lab-Rat]

A Disney cartoon rated PG! Blimey. I'm still proud of my now deleted copy of Mulan. Two seconds of footage showing a head-butt that was removed lest it fail to recieve a U rating.

I don't think there is anything objectionable about liking Disney films. I know lots of people that would inculde at least one Disney title in their list of favorite films. No they are not all children before you ask!

[-[Raven]-]

I wanted to get one of those wind-up llamas to put next to my PC from McDs, but my mates wouldn't let me :(