What do people think of FMJ?

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

I saw it the other day on Sky One and thought it was pretty good, considering I had never seen it. I think I only watched it because someone recommended it here (or had it in there Top10 -Hows that goin Goph?), so thanks. :)
Anyway I was just wondering what you all think about the film..












Boba Fett :fett:

[-reaper-]

Never seen it. HH was pretty good and P was great, if a little boring in places. If I'd known it was on, I'd would have probably watched it. :(

[Gopher]

i'd say it was the best war film...... deffinately my fave war film :)

[Gopher]

whats HH....... Were you meant to write DH for Deer Hunter?? :)

[Karen]

.

[Gopher]

what a contribution form angel there:E:E:)

[Karen]

hehe I was going to say Hogans Heroes and then i realised how dumb I was being. :P

[Gopher]

i won't mention you thought P was predator then.....ooops :E

[Karen]

argh, I didn't say I thought it was predator. I said I knew it wasn't predator but thats the name that kept poping into my head. Stop twisting my words!!! :mad::P

[-reaper-]

I had to work out FMJ!

Clue: HH and P are both in the same vein - ie, Vietnam!

I suppose I could've added TTRL, too. But I didn't, coz it's a booooooring film.

[Gopher]

Originally posted by -reaper-

Clue: HH and P are both in the same vein - ie, Vietnam!


well i already knew that:)

dam you :E

[-reaper-]

Oh alright! :E It's Hamburger Hill and Platoon. T'other would be The Thin Red (boring) Line.

[[BL]Abomination]

FMJ - best war film ever :)

[{OAP}SagaLout]

woah! thats quite a statement! What about Lawrence of Arabia, Bridge on the River Kwai, Das Boot and U571(joking :laugh:)

Lots of very good war films about, I dont think there is a *best* one tbh.

[travis bickle]

full metal jacket is a fantastic film

[Bluedog]

Bah, The Thin Red Line is an amazing film.

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

:laugh: @ Gopher/Angel antics

Well it's really interesting to hear what ya had to say about it! I think I'm gonna have to see the other mentioned films (Not Hogans Heroes or Predator :P).

[-reaper-]

Originally posted by Bluedog
Bah, The Thin Red Line is an amazing film.

Amazingly boring! My girlfriend fell asleep in the cinema!

[Gopher]

my ex-girlf fell asleep for about 15 minutes when we went to watch Eyes Wide Shut

she timed it perfectly to the scene around the pool table towards the end with tom cruise and that guy (forgot hi name).....pretty much the most important scene in the whole film!!:)






[Edited by Gopher on 08-06-2001 at 02:14 PM]

[Yowie]

hehe this film again :)

I've lost track of the number of times it's been discussed in this forum.

I see a couple of you think it's the greatest war movie ever made (Gopher and Abomination).

I'd be interested to hear your views on what you think makes it such a great movie.

I'm not looking for a 1000 word essay just a brief explanation will do :)

I think Hamburger Hill is underrated. It had the misfortune of being released about the same time as Platoon and Full Metal Jacket and was often regarded as the weakest of the three Vietnam films of the late '80s. I don't think such comparisons are really fair, it's an altogether different type of film. It's a more traditional war movie, in many ways it harkens back to war films of an earlier era, but than is not necessarily a bad thing.

Some of the battle scenes are chillingly realistic.

[Michael_Myers]

This is my all time favourite film EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and i think that pretty much sums up that it must be fluffing ELITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

Heheh!! :)

Well I never..

[Yowie]

Hehe MM with reviews like that you could put all the world's film critics out of a job :)

"This film is great because I like it."

"This film is awful because I hate it."

Wow!

Look out Barry Norman...

Look out Jonathan Ross...

There's a new guy in town :tongue:

;)

Seriously though guys this is the film forum. Posts of 'I love that film' can only move the discussion on so far.

If I was going to post I would say something like:

I was really impressed by FMJ. The first half is a bitter indictment of the brutalising, dehumanising effect of boot-camp, R. Lee Ermey in particular was fantastic. However, the second half isn't as hard hitting and somewhat looses it's way, it's anti-war message is nowhere near as profound as in Kubrick's earlier film 'Paths of Glory'. Despite this it's still an effective portrayal of the grim realities of combat in Vietnam War.

Anyhow I’m glad that many of you rate an anti-war film like FMJ as your all-time favourite movie.

[Edited by Yowie on 09-06-2001 at 10:04 AM]

[travis bickle]

some of us have better things to do than write out why we like a film ALL the time

unless someone challenged that the film was good- which i havent seen yet- i wouldnt bother

there is no point writing a review if its not necessary

also in my case i havent seen the film in a long time - i have seen many films in between so excuse me if my memory of that film is a little vague and if i dont want to write anything in case my memory deceives me

we're not idiots- we KNOW this is the film forum

oh and btw id hardly call jonothan ross a film critic- like gail porter he is a lucky celebrity that has landed a job

'im a reasonable man get off my case'

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

Originally posted by travis bickle
some of us have better things to do than write out why we like a film ALL the time

unless someone challenged that the film was good- which i havent seen yet- i wouldnt bother

there is no point writing a review if its not necessary

also in my case i havent seen the film in a long time - i have seen many films in between so excuse me if my memory of that film is a little vague and if i dont want to write anything in case my memory deceives me

we're not idiots- we KNOW this is the film forum

oh and btw id hardly call jonothan ross a film critic- like gail porter he is a lucky celebrity that has landed a job

'im a reasonable man get off my case'

:laugh: Gotta agree with you Trav.

[Yowie]

So why the hell did you post this topic in the first place Boba?

'What do people think of FMJ'?

Did all you want was a list of people saying 'I loved it' or 'I hated it'?


we're not idiots- we KNOW this is the film forum

No I don't think you do.

A forum is a place where things are debated and discussed so far all I've seen are a list of statements there hasn't been much debate or discussion.

You don't need a disagreement to discuss aspects of a film.

I came here looking for a discussion about the merits or otherwise of a film and interested to hear peoples' opinions yet all I get is grief.


some of us have better things to do than write out why we like a film ALL the time

You seem perfectly willing to waste time to bitching about things.


oh and btw id hardly call jonothan ross a film critic- like gail porter he is a lucky celebrity that has landed a job

You're the only person I know of that could try and find fault in a light-hearted joke m8. You should really lighten up.

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

Fair enough mate, but the way ya put it sounded, I dunno, I guess...but doesn't matter!



Originally posted by Yowie

Seriously though guys this is the film forum. Posts of 'I love that film' can only move the discussion on so far.

If I was going to post I would say something like:

I was really impressed by FMJ. The first half is a bitter indictment of the brutalising, dehumanising effect of boot-camp, R. Lee Ermey in particular was fantastic. However, the second half isn't as hard hitting and somewhat looses it's way, it's anti-war message is nowhere near as profound as in Kubrick's earlier film 'Paths of Glory'. Despite this it's still an effective portrayal of the grim realities of combat in Vietnam War.



[Edited by Yowie on 09-06-2001 at 10:04 AM]

How deep does that sound! ;) Too much for meh lil brain.

[travis bickle]

OH LMAO - you really are a LAMER

ha ha - no matter what your views on the function of the forums i still KNOW this is the film forum- 'seriously tho guys this is the film forum'- YES- WE KNOW!!!

your further reply of- 'no i dont think you do' just proves again that you are a patronising annoying fool

i think it would be fair to say that i contribute quite a lot to the forum and to have some random stranger telling me that i dont even know the forum can be quite annoying

i am perfectly willing to waste time bitching about things- but i dont know why i shouldnt when someone comes in more or less slagging off the forum and its members

i see you didnt address the main message of my post that explained my reason for not discussing it - missing the point entirely

maybe i should lighten up but calling jonothan ross a 'film critic' is an insult to anyone that likes films- i like him and i think hes funny but i disagree with the fact that he got his job purely through celebrity

if you dont want grief dont give it

[Yowie]

some of us have better things to do than write out why we like a film ALL the time

Both your posts have a combined word count of 338.


I was really impressed by FMJ...etc.

Word count - 72


...random stranger...

Erm no. I used to post here quite a bit until some of the more intelligent posters left.


...but i dont know why i shouldnt when someone comes in more or less slagging off the forum and its members...

You must have one hell of an inferiority complex to mistake a light-hearted joke (hence all the smiles and hehes) and some resonable suggestions about how to liven up the debate as an insult.


I see a couple of you think it's the greatest war movie ever made (Gopher and Abomination).

I'd be interested to hear your views on what you think makes it such a great movie.

If you'd spend more time posting about films and less time bitching like an immature little girl about posts that weren't even directed at you in the first place this forum would be a far better place.

I tell you what - if you disagree with something I say in future just ignore it. I'll sure as hell be ignoring your inane posts from now on and that way the other people here don't have to waste their time scrolling through sh!t, pointless and utterly irritating arguments like this.

[travis bickle]

Originally posted by Yowie

Seriously though guys this is the film forum. Posts of 'I love that film' can only move the discussion on so far.


hmm this seems to be posted at all people in general - esp people like me who just put a one line answer thus my reply



Originally posted by [TJC]Boba Fett ASF
[QUOTE]
:laugh: Gotta agree with you Trav.

seemed as tho i wasnt the only one who felt your reply was negative

oh and i again see that you have failed to address the main points of my argument- again showing your foolishness

yes i agree to end this argument here and i will go and play some low intelligence games

[Michael_Myers]

A forum is a place where things are debated and discussed so far all I've seen are a list of statements there hasn't been much debate or discussion.

Heres a statement for you. If you disagree with something ive said fine but if you simply consider yourself better than everyone else because you feel that you have to explain yourself you can piss off and die. I lke the film because it stirs the emotionbs in a way that very few war films manage, in fact very few films full stop. BUT i think every one has different reasons for liking films and its a sda day when everyone HAS to have a reason for liking something!

so my message to you is GET A FLUFFING LIFE AND STOP WHINGING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[da Cyborg]

Yowie, may i apologise on behalf of all those who aren't as good as you and never will be. Unfortunately, those with intelligence who no longer post here obviously felt out of their depth talking to you.



If I was going to post I would say something like:

I was really impressed by FMJ. The first half is a bitter indictment of the brutalising, dehumanising effect of boot-camp, R. Lee Ermey in particular was fantastic. However, the second half isn't as hard hitting and somewhat looses it's way, it's anti-war message is nowhere near as profound as in Kubrick's earlier film 'Paths of Glory'. Despite this it's still an effective portrayal of the grim realities of combat in Vietnam War.


You really are so much better than everyone and like you say, people should post in exactly the manner you do if they even hope to come within a hundred miles of being as good as you.



I'm not looking for a 1000 word essay just a brief explanation will do


Yes, great one.



If you'd spend more time posting about films and less time bitching like an immature little girl about posts that weren't even directed at you in the first place this forum would be a far better place.


Oooooooh, bitchy.

[[TJC]Boba Fett ASF]

Yowie didn't annoy me at all, but you 'da Cyborg' can shut up..I mean who the hell do you think you are to say Yowie is better than all of us, just cause cause his posts are longer.
I really hope I have misread your post or something...

[da Cyborg]

hehe irony
:)
Boba we salute your wonderful irony P.S you're a genius

:mrt: "Has anyone seen my feather earring?"

[Bluedog]

Hey Cyborg what are you doin' in here. Go and read Digi or something :)

Yowie: are you sure your not the ******* offspring of Clipper?

[JackG2]

I thought P meant Predator. :{

[Clipper]

oooh, I go away for a few days and discover not only a Kubrick post but also the sight of Travis throwing his toys out of his pram yet again :E and this time I'm not the cause of his ramblings...

I made this point about one line answers and lack of discussion a while ago and got pretty much the same response as Yowie...

Yowie, with this forum you have to put up with the fact that the majority on here don't want to discuss films indepth and posts like this one usually elicit responses such as

"I like it"

"I don't"

ad infinitum... But that isn't to say that there is no decent discussion. Recently there was a great debate on the British film industry for instance.

But as to the topic... This was discussed not so long ago and I gave my opinion there...

FMJ is not the best war film ever, I believe it's the best the Vietnam film out there. It avoids glamourising Vietnam by being brutal in its depiction of the action.

The first half is without doubt a superb piece of film... Cold clinical and dehumanising. Taking normal healthy men and reducing them to drones and if they fail to accede then they die. A fantastic first half and among Kubrick's finest hours.

The second half is not as good but as far as I'm concerned it is the most emotive and objective views of Nam I've seen. It doesn't go for the easy option and show lots of jungle fighting where the backdrops are lush and full of natural beauty that provide a relief and contrast for the violence in the foreground. Instead FMJ goes for city/town warfare and in doing so the entire thing looks drab and grey. Noone here is a hero , noone throws their arms theatrically in the air and drops to their knees at the horror... they are soldiers doing their job and alot of them hate it. The scene with the sniper is one of the most tense pieces of film I have seen. The atmosphere is sterile and cold and emotionless... Interesting how it engaged peoples emotions yet for the most part the film is very cold, possibly Kubricks coldest emotionless film. But this lack of emotion is a positive thing, we have to react to the film we don't let the film tell us what to feel (watch and learn Mr Spielberg).

As a whole I feel it's the best Nam movie... I cannot stand Platoon mainly because it tries to press all of the emotion buttons for you instead of allowing you to decide how you feel... Also the shot composition is mawkish and sentimental for the most part (see man on knees with arms raised). Oliver Stone could not be objective about Nam and therefore his vision is tainted by his own experience.

FMJ is the film that should have recieved the Oscars, no doubt about that (to me anyway).

As for best war film ever? As stated, it is difficult to say as they are from different wars...

best WWI film? Paths of Glory without doubt... This film is even better than FMJ IMO.

Given the quality of FMJ it's difficult to believe but I still think Paths of Glory is the better film, and it is a better anti-war film.

[Yowie]

We might not always agree Clipper but I think there's room for some common ground on this one :)

It was interesting that the Tet Offensive formed the context for the second part of the movie. The Tet offensive saw some of the bloodiest urban engagements of the Vietnam War including the battle for the city of Hue. It is widely regarded as a turning point in the war and formed an important part of the book 'The Short Timers' on which the film was based, so Kubrick might not really have had a choice of the setting. However, you make some interesting points that I hadn't considered before about the cold emotionless aspect of the cityscapes, it works stylistically, it's very effective.

The lack of feeling you refer to is also interesting. It's not so much for me lack of feeling as it is lack of humanity, nihilism and the barbarity of the Vietnam War that the film conveys.

I must admit though I was a bit disappointed with the ending. In a film all about the dehumanising effect of war Kubrick doesn't quite handle the changes in Pvt. Joker as well as the book does with the same character - not that I can really remember much about it, I read it 12 years ago ;)

I read an interesting quote somewhere that sums up for me the reasons why Kubrick failed with the second part of the movie 'Kubrick is a perfectionist trying to do chaos, he's just incapable of pulling it off'. Quite true, the second half has an artificial quality to it that doesn't seem right somehow.

On the topic of Kubrick and Spielberg I'm I the only one absolutely DREADING A.I.? :{


[Edited by Yowie on 11-06-2001 at 07:09 PM]

[Yowie]

da Cyborg,

Enjoy picking fights with complete strangers? You must have a pretty empty life. At least travis and MM had a reason for posting, they were under the mistaken impression my original posts were insulting them.

I've no intention of dragging TB into this again, we've agreed to bury the hatchet (or at least ignore one and other). As for MM I can readily put his outburst down to youthful enthusiasm.

But you really are quite an obnoxious little smartass aren't you.

Ever heard the expression 'sarcasm is the lowest form of wit'?

Didn't think so.

[da Cyborg]

I've heard that one 'too many cooks spoil the broth'.
Oh, there's that other one, 'a stitch in time saves 9,' which i guess is devoted to Bernard's watch. I've never been the best at deciphering the hidden and subtle messages , but I understand what's happening here. You are against hostility towards strangers, but aren't you a stranger to everyone, and that glance you gave the camera on 'worlds most elusive creatures' looked quite hostile. Surreal! Anyway, to travis, you are a mook guitarist idiot.

[Gwil Da Skank Of TA]

Way to ruin a decent thread with your 'I must start arguments with everyone approach' Yowie

You totally rule!

[Gwil Da Skank Of TA]

BTW -
Please dont set Clipper on me, I dont think I can stand an onslaught of pretentiousness from one person, let alone two!

[da Cyborg]

Agreed. Yowie you're the man. Or was that the ape man HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

[Gwil Da Skank Of TA]

*me throws fuel onto roaring fire*
Ahhh

[da Cyborg]

He wouldn't stoop to your level Gwil, he's God. God of planet of the apes LOL ROFL LMFAO
Yowie 'I'm so good'
Yowie 'Yoweeeeeeeeee'

OBSERVE THE CALL OF THE PRETENTIOUS

Sorry, i said observe when you cannot observe sound!
Good job I corrected myself before MAAAASter yowie saw it! I would have have been in trouble with his highness then. He may have even called me 'pathetic' LMFAO!!!!!

[Clipper]

Gwil if you feel our discussion is pretentious then simply don't read it and go back the endless posts of "I like it " "I don't"... I used to complain about facile posts but I've pretty much given up and now simply don't comment at all..

Yowie... Good points, I think the "artificial" feel you refer to is actually intentional as in a sense the Nam war seemed to have an artificial almost surreal quality about it. Your point about the setting being in the book is correct , but remember that Kubrick read voraciously and if he read that book and wanted to do a jungle setting he would have the book aside and read another until a book did grab him, so it was in a sense his choice (ie he chose the book)... I agree that the second half is weaker but I don;t agree that it fails...

As for A.I. I am hoping and praying it will be good, but I feel that Spielberg will wring every last drop of sentimentality out of it and ruin it completely. I know Kubrick liked Spielberg and that they'd discussed Spielberg directing it anyway with Kubrick producing before he died but without Kubrick's steadying influence I feel Spielberg will just do his usual thing and ruin it... But as I said I hope and pray it is good as it would be a fitting Kubrick tribute (for those who don't like Eyes Wide Shut :P)

[Yowie]

Yeah Clipper you're quite right failed really was too harsh a word.

You're most likely also right about why Kubrick chose the ‘Short Timers’ as the basis for the film. He was known to nurture some of his projects for decades so if he were going to select a book or incident on which to base one of his films he'd choose it very carefully indeed.

Only around half the book was actually filmed proving he wasn't just making a film-of-the-book. Like he did with 'The Shining' he's taken someone else’s story and made it his completely his own and in many ways better. I wonder if Gustav Hasford was as pissed off about that as Steven King was :)

However, I do disagree that the artificial nature of the second part, whether it was intended or not, is a good thing. War is always chaotic but this was especially true of the Vietnam War and I don't think Kubrick captures the essence of this. I don't think he could for the reasons summed up nicely in the quote above.

I'm really going to have to make time to see Eyes Wide Shut. I can’t believe I haven’t seen it yet :(