View Full Version : ARCHIVE - PCT
In response to a number of posts, and in the interests of promoting awareness of Tolkien's mythology, I have started this thread for the purposes of information and discussion... Culled from various sources too numerous to mention, who undoubtedly drew directly from JRRT's Silmarillion, here for the edification and enlightenment of those who are interested, are the Powers of Arda in all their glory... I may get around to a summary of the Maiar if there is sufficient interest... Hopefully this will be useful source material for both novices and the initiated...
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~ Introduction ~
In J.R.R.Tolkien's, Middle-earth, the Valar - the Powers of Arda - who live on the Western continent of Aman, the Undying Lands.
[NOTE : The Valar are NOT gods, they more closely parallel Christian Archangels. If any being in Tolkien's world could be considered a true deity it would be Ilúvatar].
The first words of the Ainulindalë (Quenya: "The Music of the Ainur") introduce us to the name Eru: 'There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar...'. This wording can be seen as suggesting that Eru is the 'true' name of the supreme being, but in fact this doesn't seem to be the case - Eru is just Elvish for 'The One'. Ilúvatar created the World and the beings who inhabit it, and only he fully knows its fate. Ilúvatar means "Father of All" and it is he whom created the Ainur, or Holy Ones. These primordial spirits, existed with Ilúvatar, and with Him created the world through the Music of the Ainur. After the creation of Arda, many of the Ainur descended into it to guide and order its growth; of these there were fifteen more powerful than the rest. Fourteen of these great Ainur became the Valar, or Powers of Arda. The fifteenth, Melkor (later called, Morgoth Bauglir - 'Morgoth' means 'Black Enemy'; 'Bauglir' is 'The Constrainer'), turned aside from that path and became the first Dark Lord. The many lesser Ainur that accompanied the Valar into Arda are known as Maiar. They dwelt originally on the Isle of Almaren, but after its destruction they moved to Aman and founded Valinor.
~ Lords of the Valar ~
Manwë Súlimo, King of the Valar, Lord of the Winds - Manwë is dearest to Ilúvatar and uderstands most clearly his purposes. He was appointed to be, in the fullness of time, the first of all Kings: lord of the realms of Arda and ruler of all that dwell therein. In Arda his delight is in the winds and the clouds, and in all the regions of the air, from the heights to the depths, from the utmost borders of the Veil of Arda to the breezes that blow in the grass. Súlimo he is surnamed, Lord of the Breath of Arda. All swift birds, strong of wing, he loves, and they come and go at his bidding.
Ulmo, Lord of the Waters - Ulmo is the Lord of Waters. He is alone. He dwells nowhere long, but moves as he will in all the deep waters about the Earth or under the Earth. He is next in might to Manwë, and before Valinor was made he was closest to him in friendship; but thereafter he went seldom to the councils of the Valar, unless great matters were in debate. For he kept all Arda in thought, and he has no need of any resting-place. Moreover he does not love to walk upon land, and will seldom clothe himself in a body after the manner of his peers. If the Children of Eru beheld him they were filled with a great dread; for the arising of the King of the Sea was terrible, as a mounting wave that strides to the land, with dark helm foam-crested and raiment of mail shimmering from silver down into shadows of green. Th trumpets of Manwë are loud, but Ulmo's voice is deep as the deeps of the ocean which he only has seen.
Nonetheless Ulmo loves bothe Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he will come unsen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world. Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manwë.
Aulë, the Smith - Aulë has might little less than Ulmo. His lordship is over all the substances of which Arda is made. In the beginning he wrought much in fellowship with Manwë and Ulmo; and the fashioning of all lands was his labour. He is a smith and a master of all crafts, and he delights in works of skill, however small, as much as in the mighty building of old. His are the gems that lie deep in the Earth and the gold that is fair in the hand, no less than the walls of the mountains and the basins of the sea. The Noldor learned most of him, and he was ever their friend. Melkor was jealous of him, for Aulë was most like himself in thought and in powers; and there was long strife between them, in which Melkor ever marred or undid the works of Aulë, and Aulë grew weary in repairing the tumults and disorders of Melkor. Both, also, desired to make things of their own that should be new and unthought of by others, and delighted in the praise of their skill. But Aulë remained faithful to Eru and submitted all that he did to his will; and he did not envy the works of others, but sought and gave counsel. Whereas Melkor spent his spirit in envy and hate, until at last he could make nothing save in mockery of the thought of others, and all their works he destroyed if he could.
Oromë, the Golden, the Great Rider - Oromë is a mighty lord. If he is less strong than Tulkas, he is more dreadful in anger; wheras Tulkas laughs ever, in sport or in war, and even in the face of Melkor he laughed in battles before the Elves were born. Oromë loved the lands of Middle-earth, and he left them unwillingly and came last to Valinor; and often of old he passed back east over the mountains and returned with his host to the hills and the plains. He is a hunter of monsters and fell beasts, and he delights in horses and in hounds; and all trees he loves, for which reason he is called Aldaron, and by the Sindar Tauron, the Lord of Forests. Nahar is the name of his horse, white in the sun, and shining silver at night. The Valaróma is the name of his great horn, the sound of which is like the upgoing of the Sun in scarlet, or the sheer lightning cleaving the clouds. Above all the horns of his host it was heard in the woods that Yavanna brought forth in Valinor; for there Oromë would train his folk and his beasts for the pursuit of the evil creatures of Melkor.
Námo Mandos, Judge of the Dead - The Fëanturi, masters of spirits, are brethren, and they are called most often Mandos and Lórien. Yet these are rightly the names of the places of their dwelling, and their true names are Námo and Irmo.Námo the elder dwells in Mandos, which is westward in Valinor. He is the keeper of the Houses of the Dead, and the summoner of the spirits of the slain. He forgets nothing; and he knows all things that shall be, save only those that lie still in the freedom of Ilúvatar. He is the doomsman of the Valar; but he pronounces his dooms and his judgements only at the bidding of Manwë.
Irmo Lórien, Master of Dreams - Irmo the younger is the master of visions and dreams. In Lórien are his gardens in the land of the Valar, and they are the fairest of all places in the world, filled with many spirits. From the fountains of Irmo and Estë all those who dwell in Valinor draw refreshment; and often the Valar come themselves to Lórien and there find repose and easing of the burden of Arda.
Tulkas Astaldo, Champion of Valinor - Greatest in strength and deeds of prowess is Tulkas, who is sur-named Astaldo, the Valiant. He came last to Arda, to aid the Valar in the first Battles with Melkor. He delights in wrestling and in contests of strength; and he rides no steed, for he can outrn all things that go on feet, and he is tireless. His hair and beard are golden, and his flesh ruddy; his weapons are his hands. He has little head for either the past or the future, and is of no avail as a counsellor, but is a hardy friend.
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~ Queens of the Valar (Valier) ~
Varda Elentári - Varda, Lady of the Stars, who knows all the regions of Eä. Too great is her beauty to be declared in the words of Men or of Elves; for the light of Ilúvatar lives still in her face. In light is her power and her joy. Out of the deeps of Eä she came to the aid of Manwë; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her, and feared her more than all others whom Eru made.
Yavanna Kementári - The spouse of Aulë is Yavanna, the Giver of Fruits. She is the lover of all things that grow in the earth, and all their countless forms she holds in her mind, from the trees like towers in forests long ago to the moss upon stones or the small and secret things in the mould. In reverence Yavanna is next to Varda among the Queens of the Valar. In the form of a woman she is tall, and robed in green; but at times she takes other shapes. Some there are who have seen her standing like a tree under heaven, crowned with the Sun; and form all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth, and it grew green with corn; but the roots of the tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwë spoke in its leaves. Kementári, Queen of the Earth, she is surnamed in the Eldarin tounge.
Estë, the Gentle - Estë the gentle, healer of hurts and weariness, is Irmo's spouse. Grey is her rainment; and rest is her gift. She walks not by day, but sleeps upon an island in the tree-shadowed lake of Lórellin.
Nienna, Lady of Mercy - Mightier than Estë is Nienna, sister of the Fëanturi; she dwells alone. She is acquainted with grief, and mourns for every wound that Arda has suffered in the marring of Melkor. So great was her sorrow, as the Music unfolded, that her song turned to lamentation long before its end, and the sound of mourning was woven into the themes of the World before it began. But she does not weep for herself; and those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope. Her halls are west of West, upon the borders of the world; and she comes seldom to the city of Valimar where all is glad. She goes rather to the halls of Mandos, which are near to her own; and all those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom. The windows of her house look outward from the walls of the world.
Vairë, the Weaver - She who weaves all things that have ever been in Time into her storied webs, and the halls of Mandos that ever widen as the ages pass are clothed with them. She is the spouse of Námo.
Vána, the Ever-young - The spouse of Oromë is Vána, the Ever-young; she is the younger sister of Yavanna. All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and the birds sing at her coming.
Nessa - The spouse of Tulkas is Nessa, the sister of Oromë, and she also is lithe and fleetfooted. Deer she loves, and they follow her train whenever she goes in the wild; but she can outrun them, swift as an arrow with the wind in her hair. In dancing she delights, and she dances in Valimar on lawns of never-fading green.
(These are the names of the Valar as they were known to the Eldar. In Middle-earth, they were known by other names of Sindarin origin; for example they called Varda, "Elbereth". Men knew them by many other names.)
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Melkor was at one time numbered among the Valar, but he was forced out from among their number. The Valar were the greatest of the Ainur who witnessed the Vision of Ilúvatar and so came to create Arda. Melkor came to Arda to claim it for his own.
Manwë and Melkor fought, and Manwë called other spirits to help him in his battle. Among these were the other Valar and the Maiar. Melkor withdrew from the battle, and the others continued their creation of the World. But Melkor saw this, and returned to fight for control of Arda.
The Valar have no fixed shape, but often take the shapes of Men and Elves, or they can remain invisible. Melkor however lost the ability to change shape before his fall, as did later his servant Sauron.
Aden Valliano
06-09-2004, 13:04
my own addition to this would be that the various Maiar are spirits tied to a particular vala. these are creatures like water spirits or air spirits, and in english mythology would resemble nympths and dryads.
the Istari are maiar, Gandalf for instance serves manwe, whilst Curunir Saruman serves Aule
Sauron is also a maiar, and chief lieutenant of melkor. the Istari were sent to Arda by the valar to act as a counter for sauron.
Balrogs to are maiar, they were fire spirits, not particularly evil, but whilst manwe's element was air, and Ulmos was water, melkor, while he was counted among the valar had fire, and he corrupted the fire spirits and made them the demons we know today. to the dwarves htey are known as Durins bane.
also know that no mortal man has set foot in valinor, and been unchanged.
prior to, and the cause of, the fall of nurmenor, Ar_Pharazon, the last king, led a mighty fleet and landed on its shores. he and his men were wiped out.
before him elendil's father attempted to plead with the valar to spare nurmenor, his fate is unknown.
the only other mortal to set foot there is Earendil the Mariner, who sailed to valinor with a silmaril bound on his brow, he is the father to Elrond halfelven, and Elros, first king of Nurmenor. he sailed there to plead for the valar to intercede in beleriand. and at his request, the hosts of valinor came to arda and melkor was defeated.
Earendil was not allowed to sail back to arda though. instead with the silmaril still on his brow, he sails the heavens, and is the brightest star in middle earth. his name has great significance among the noldor, due to his ties to Elbereth. galadrial gives Frodo a phial containing "the light of earendil, are brightest star, may it be a light to you in the dark places, when all other lights go out"
All I can say is, yes, if you see Ulmo (or DM Ulmo) run for your lives, because he is mighty and his waters will consume any people who break the rules of the lands.
Don't listen to this heretic, get back in your cupboard, now.
Note on J.R.R. Tolkien's Gods and The Lord of the Ring Trilogy in general.
Tolkien enormous work was spawned from Northern Lore and what we call Myth of the Norse peoples. Those being the Scandinavian countries which includes Denmark, and they all had different variations of simular stories and different principle Gods. The one God is present as a unifying overlord in Norse Mythology as well; so is not a creation of Tolkien's, rather he used the existing Norse concepts.
Elves figure largely in Tolkien's work and are derived from the Norse "Alf" which can be translated as "beings of light". In Norse they are literally the sun rays that make things grows and you can see the hidden beings on dew and spider webs as the light shines on them, as well as in the cold flakes of sunlit snow. Gandalf is literally Gand the elf. Tolkien adapted these Norse light beings into the forest dwellers we know, approriate because they are nuturing spirits and so remain true to form.
Dwarves were taken directly out of Norse lore and transfered intact for the most part to his books. They are the creators of the earth and all things of the earth. Gems, Metals, and magical items are all the work of dwarves in Norse. The Norse Gods were not creators, that was left to the dwaves to do for inanimate things and for the Alfs to do for the living things. Of Dwarves the sons of Ivaldi figure most prominately in the Myths of magical item creation for the Gods.
Of Gods, Tolkien created his own, based on his own imagination and general Norse attributes. I suspect that he did not wish to deface the Norse lore by directly borrowing their Gods. But in one case alone he only slightly modified the old Gods name---that is Aules---and perhaps Ulmo. Ul or Ull was a real God, primarily in the East Baltic region and not well known, which may be why he used it; or at least used variations of the name. That Gods attributes were very simular to Odin or Woden and little else is known. He was probably Finnish or Russian in origin.
It is always good to know the real basis of all things so understanding of their reality can be used as approprate. All Gods are simply an extension of the beings who need them. Thank the Gods for Tolkien's extraordinary skill and imagination.
I was wondering abou the chance of developing this thread into a discussion thread for Tolkien's mythology and writings. Its already starting to lean that way, and I'm sure many members of our community would enjoy reading such things and adding their own. I'm sure many of us are aware of texts and resources others aren't and could bring those things into light here, and recommend them to others.
Balac's post about the Norse origins of the Valar interests me greatly, and I have some interesting stuff about how tolkien plays with language.
So if people are interested in such things maybe here would be the place to share them?
Go for it :)
When the new forums are here, i'll have a whole area dedicated to topics like this :)
Aden Valliano
08-09-2004, 22:53
my own knowledge is related to the 5 main books silmarillion, LOTR and the hobbit, but i know there's a whole host of stuff published and unpublished...
the best repository and discussion centre i know is the fanatics plaza, at www.lotrplaza.com
and of course, the aforementioned encyclopedia of Arda
I thought I'd put in a little more about Dwarves and Gandalf, I'm not trying to dispute anything Balac has said here, just going a little deeper into Tolkiens origins for these people. In fact rather than the dwarves we see in LOTR, I've gione back a step further to The Hobbit.
The dwarves of Tolkiens middle earth are indeed in part drawn fromNorse mythology, but this isn't their only source. There is also elements of Old English, Old High German, the afore mentioned old Norse, Gothic, Prehistoric German and Indo-European mythology and language at play here, and the word Dwarf is derived from all of the above languages.
The names of the Thirteen Dwarves in the hobbit are taken from some 12th century Icelandic prose called 'Edda'. This has an account of the creation of Dwarves and then a list of their names. This list is called 'Dvergatal' or Dwarfs' Roll. All thirteen dwarves from the Hobbit can be found here. Also surprisingly the name Gandalf is also found here as a Dwarf, and indeed Thorin wasn't the leader of the dwarves in early scripts of The Hobbit, it was in fact a Dwarf called Gandalf.
The name of course was carried across to the wizard who went on to be the guide to the dwarves and to introduce them to Bilbo.
Gandalf himself comes from many sources as a character, most notably Merlin of the Celts, Odin of the Norsemen, Woden of the Early Germans, Mercury of the Romans, Hermes of the Greeks and Thoth of the Egyptians. Merlin/Odin and Woden often dressed as Gandalf does, and another thing they all have in common is that in many tales they served as guides to heroes and helped them overcome problems (like being captured by a group of hungry trolls). Picking back up on Balac's point about the meaning of Gandalf the literal translation is 'Sorcerer Elf', which is a fair description of Gandalf.
This really does just touch on both the dwarves and Gandalf, as Gandalf's name has many more meanings. Everything I've put here is an abbreviation of much more detailed information that can be found in 'the Hobbit companion'. I would recommend this to any Tolkien fan, as it explores the intracacies of the Hobbit through the language, reminding us that as well as an inspired writer Tolkien was a very clever Linguist.
Galdor_Niphredil
09-09-2004, 00:24
It appears a lost letter from Tolkien has just recently been found in the UK (North East England) giving the authors thoughts on his own writings.
Not only that but apparently the letter it is on 'The Antiques Roadshow' this Sunday 12/09/04 at 6.45pm on BBC1 for anyone who is interested.
In the letter Tolkien talks about the core of his tale, but adds: "I could not explain how the story grew in anything less than an autobiography."
source: www.theonering.net
Sorry if this is wrong thread to post in but thought it may be of interest.
[B]This is great guys...[B/]
I simply intended to answer a few questions about the Powers of Middle Earth for the use of clerics and paladins in RP situations... but i am REALLY glad that people are posting stuff about the man, his work and the thinking behind it... We arent talking about Bioware patches and mechanics issues... hooray... lets keep it that way...
On a related note... just to agree with what others have previously stated, if anyone had any doubt that Tolkien drew from norse/anglo-saxon myth and legend, just look at the culture of the Rohirrim, or for that matter Beorn the Bearwalker. He comes directly from Norse legends of berzerker warriors who 'fought like bears' or 'with the bears great strength', while they may not be suggessting that they any actual metamorphosis took place (hmmm) the metaphore is the same in both instances.
Correct me if im wrong...
~ of DWARVES and their ORIGINS and other Matters~
Particularly for the lads at the Cracked Anvil, but also for any who would delve into Dwarfish Lore... I present the following from the notes of Ibun (Kibil-tarâg) Silverbeard...
In the Norse Mythology and in J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth, the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves were the first of their race.
It is told in The Silmarillion that the Vala Aulë created the Dwarves because he was impatient for the arising of the Children of Ilúvatar (Elves and Men). He created seven Dwarves, and was teaching them the language he had devised for them (Khuzdul) when Ilúvatar confronted him. Aulë offered his creations to Ilúvatar, who accepted them and gave them life.
However, the Fathers of the Dwarves had to wait until the Elves first arrived (pah), and Aulë laid them to rest in various places in Middle-earth.
The eldest of all, Durin, "lay alone" at Mount Gundabad in the north of the Misty Mountains. He later founded the line of the Longbeards (or Sigin-tarâg in Khuzdul), the Dwarves which were most friendly to the Elves and Men. His city was Khazad-dûm.
Two others were laid to rest near Mount Dolmed in the Ered Luin or Blue Mountains, and they founded the lines of the Broadbeams and the Firebeards who later lived in Nogrod and Belegost.
The other four Fathers of Dwarves were laid to rest in the far east, two of them at the northern end of the Orocarni, and the other two near the southern end of the range. These founded the lines of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and Blacklocks and Stonefoots. No Dwarves of these lines appear in the tales.
Of the Fathers of the Dwarves, only Durin is said to have "lain alone". This can be interpreted as referring to the fact he was indeed laid down to rest alone while the other Fathers were laid to rest in pairs, but older versions of the story suggest that it meant Durin alone had no female companion. (By implication this means that the other Fathers did.) By this version of the story, Durin's Folk was formed out of Dwarves from the other six lines.
They mined and worked precious metals throughout the mountains of Middle-earth. In many ways, they were in between the Elves and Men. They were not immortal, but lived to two hundred and fifty years or more. They were generally less corruptible than Men, but committed their share of rash and greedy acts. Among these are the slaying of Thingol (Elu Thingol was the king of Doriath and High King of the Sindar) and the dispute over the Arkenstone.
The Arkenstone was a wondrous gem sought by Thorin in The Hobbit. When Bilbo Baggins found it on Smaug's golden bed deep inside the Lonely Mountain, he pocketed it. When the Dwarves refused to reward Bard for killing Smaug, Bilbo snuck out of the Dwarves' fort inside the Mountain, and gave him the Arkenstone.
The Dwarven language was created by Aulë and is commonly referred to as Dwarvish, or by the Dwarves' own name for the tongue, Khuzdul. The details of the language remained largely unknown to outsiders (Men and Elves), because the Dwarves held knowledge of their tongue as one of their races' deepest secrets. The vocabulary and grammar of the language are an almost complete mystery, with a very few exceptions found in place-names, inscriptions, and in the famous Dwarvish battlecry :
"Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-menu!" - meaning - "Axes of the Dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you!"
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~ Song of Durin's Awakening ~
The world world was young, the mountains green,
No stain yet on the Moon was seen,
No words were laid on stream or stone,
When Durin woke and walked alone.
He named the nameless hills and dells;
He drank from yet untasted wells;
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere,
And saw a crown of stars appear,
As gems upon a silver thread,
Above the shadow of his head.
The world was fair, the mountains tall,
In Elder Days before the fall
Of mighty Kings in Nargothrond
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away:
The world was fair in Durin's Day.
A king he was on carven throne
In many-pillared halls of stone
With golden roof and silver floor,
And runes of power upon the door.
The light of sun and star and moon
In shining lamps of crystal hewn
Undimmed by cloud or shade of night
There shone forever fair and bright.
There hammer on the anvil smote,
There chisel clove, and graver wrote;
There forged was bladed and bound was hilt;
The delver mined the mason built.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale
And metal wrought like fishes' mail,
Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
And shining spears were laid in horde.
Unwearied then were Durin's folk;
Beneath the mountains music woke:
The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,
And at the gates the trumpets rang.
The world is grey, the mountains old,
The forge's fire is ashen-cold;
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls:
The darkness dwells in Durin's halls;
The shadow lies upon his tomb
In Moria, in Khazad-dûm.
But still the sunken stars appear
In dark and windless Mirrormere;
There lies his crown in water deep,
Till Durin wakes again from sleep.
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There you go lads... Perhaps this'll give us a few ideas regards getting ourselves 'organised'. *Veld winks conspiratorially, and looks meaningfully at Dungrim, Lolinus, Balac, Dargo, Semli and the others in the Anvil*
*Ibun nods by the fire and dozes off, the parchment slides gently to the floor... Veld goes to get him an extra blanket...*
A response to Ghost81 ref: Gandalf
Indeed you are accurate in the point that Gandalf is mentioned in the icelandic written manuscripts, Edda if I recall correctly, is simply "grandmothers or ancients" meaning the verbal lore of a culture.
The Icelandic manuscripts were written by christian monks from Ireland---they were the only ones who could write---and the tales themselves had come from Norway before that during settlement. As a result they are viewed as corrupted and both by transferance and translation. There is no other contental reference to that list of Dwarves and so it is assumed it is a fabrication. I would imagine Tolkien was aware of that and only used the names in a literary sense to flesh out the book characters. And that was why he probably choose to repackage Gandalf as a wizard rather than a dwarf.
With regard to Tolkiens concept of Gandalf the wizard and that characters creation I can only think it was of the normal hero Lay that was so much a part of northern European mythology. All of northern Europe, including the Isles, have a rich heritage of mythological tales spawned from actual events in history. Beowolf is simply one example, but it shows the need to have a overaching hero character as the focus for a story. Tolkien, it seems, adapted the hero character into a continual support role and manipulator of events; rather than the normal sword swinger. Bilbo and Frodo appear to be the heros, but in fact that was just a device to complicate and intertwine the tale, just as the evil golem character was twisted and became the ultimate force for good by destroying the ring.
Tolkien was a literary genius of our time that we many not see again in our lives.
These Icelandic manuscripts are indeed of Scandinavian background, and are in fact the primary source for Viking Mythology. Although I would say that Tolkien used the writings as a bit more than just a provider of names.
Tolkien hung a lot upon the names and languages in his works, and this does come through on the naming of the Dwarves. To take a coulpe of examples - Durin, the first of his line, is in fact the name of the creator of the Dwarves in the Edda.
Thorin Oakenshield is a great example of Tolkien finding a name then developing it into a history. Thorin itself can be translated as 'Bold', a fairly apt description of the character. His surname comes from 'Eikinskaldi' which means 'he of the Oakenshield'. There is a piece of background history where, during the goblin wars, Thorin, in battle, broke his sword but fought on with an oak bough he picked up and used as both club and shield.
Just looking briefly at sa coulpe of the other dwarves from the hobbit:
Bombur - means bulging, the fattest of the Dwarves
Norie -means peewee, happened to be the smallest of them.
Aden Valliano
09-09-2004, 10:37
well, i can't match the depth of knowledge here, but i'll put my hand to the race of men, and leave someone else to sort out the elves all the stuff with the journey west and various groups breaking off gets confusing...
so, to men
to the elves, all men are the Edain, a genrral elvish word for them, but this term only applies to the High men.
there are 3 types of men found in middle earth, much as there are 3 types of elves. those that have never seen the light (of valinor) those that have never seen it, but generally work for its cause. and those that have seen or been touched by the light.
in the world of men, this gives us the Edain, the middle peoples and the wild men
first, the wild men, the men of darkness. these are come in 2 forms. from this division you have the Easterlings, the Southrons and the Haradrim, people who serve the dark powers gladly. you also have folk like the druedain, the forest dwellers. these people, the woses, were once widespread, and lived in beleriand, even nurmenor, but are now a dwindling race.
Hobbits to are related here, more closely linked to men than elves, though their origins are lost.
of the middle people, these are what you might call normal people. the common inhabitants. they are mainly northmen, people who live in bree, in dale and lake town, they all share this common ancestry, however, people of this race can also be found in gondor to. when the men of westernesse came east to middle earth, they came as teachers and loremasters, these are the people they taught. the most well known of these people are the rohirrim, who once dwelt on the banks of the anduin, where the beornings still dwell.
Rohirrim is a gondorian name for them, they call themselves eorlings, or eorlingas, meaning children of eorl, and they call their land not rohan, but the Mark. Rohirrim means horselords.
Eorl was the founder of the kingdom, leading his men south to rout the enemies of gondor on the fields of celebrant. the fields of rohan were the stewards reward for this action.
the high men
when men first awok,e they were called the Hildor, the aftercomers, but like the other races, they divided. the most important division was called the Edain, though this word became generic for all men . there were 3 houses of the Edain, who fought alongside the elves in beleriand. the 3 houses were those of halath, beor and hador.
the most important of these houses is Beor, from this one is descended Beren, who gives rise to Earendil the mariner, to Elrond Halfelven, and ultimately to Aragorn as well.
after the valer defeated morgoth and beleriand sunk beneath the seas, the island of Elessa was given to the 3 houses as a reward. they called it Nurmenor, and it lay within sight of Valinor. it was also known as westernesse.
although all men were gifted with death, and so never tired of the world like elves did, they still craved immortality. the valar granted the nurmenoreans a lifespan 3 times that of normal men (aragorn was at least 80 when he claimed his throne!!) this only made their craving for longer lives worse.
the men here were great sea men and sailed back to middle earth, building great works there. but they were forbidden to sail west, to valinor.
eventually sauron corrupted the last king, Ar-Pharazon, who led a mighty host to valinor. Nurmenor was destroyed as a result, but Elendil the Tall saved a fair number of the people faithful to the elves and valar, and returned to middle earth.
while many of the nurmenoreans returned to middle earth as teachers, some came back to serve saurons growing power. they became trhe black nurmenoreans, some of whom became the ringwraiths. they are the founders of Umbar, forging the Corsairs with their knowledge of ships and the sea.
after the fall of nurmenor, the survivors, led by Elendil and his 2 sons isildur and Anorian established 2 kingdoms, Gondor and Arnor. the pureblood people were the called the Dunedain, but over time they mingled with other inhabitants of the lands, and their lives became that of other men. only in a few houses did the blood of westernesse run true.
a complete history or arnor and gondor can go elsewhere i feel, it would take way to long to write anyway.
similarities to the "real" world
there are many different cultures visible in the world of men, and tolkien used various inspirations for them.
the rohirrim are pretty much vikings, on horses instead of ships, but their language is defintatly saxon old english, not danish. the name Eorl is actually an older spelling of Earl, meaning leader or chieftain.
the hobbits and the shire refers back to a very traditional fantasy idea of a golden age in english history, notably the romantics view of the 13th and 14th centuries. in the prologue, words like quaint rural and possibly rustic are good desciptions. a victorian hughly sanitised view of medieval life, when everything was perfect compared to the corruption and pollution of the world through industry. this idea is seen in the works of mallory and tennyson, and Papa Tolkien's biggest critisicm is that he upheld the victorian traditions of fantasy writing, gaining the genre the title of prissiest litery form.
the fall of nurmenor somehow always reminds me of the traditional arthurian tales of tennyson, where arthor forms a land of light amidst the darkness of the saxons, but eventually falls through corruption from within. his knights then end up as missionaries of peace, trying to preserve the knowledge of the light in a land growing increasingly dark until the day arthur (aragorn) will come back to claim his throne and save britain (arda) from complete destruction (the 2nd darkness)
Gondor certainly reminds me of the romantic views of medieval england with knights (dol amroth) and civalry and stuff like that.
not enough detail is really given on the eastern realms to speculate accurately, but sometimes mainly due to oliphants, india always springs to mind, and africa to, the former colony regained its freedom fighting its former overlords.
~ of the QUENDI (the Elves) ~
Their complex history is described in full only in The Silmarillion, and it is mentioned tangentially in The Lord of the Rings. Elves were the first inhabitants of Middle-earth who were able to speak. They are sometimes called the Firstborn (as opposed to Men, the Afterborn). The Elves named themselves Quendi (the Speakers), in honor of the fact that, when they were created, they were the only living things able to speak. (This name is no accident - Tolkien was a linguist.) Oromë called them Eldar (Star People) because they were born under the stars, but the name is generally considered to exclude the Avari.
Elves are described as the fairest of all creatures in Middle-earth, lovers of art (particularly songs, which they sing in beautiful voices). Elves are also stronger than Men and have far sharper senses, enabling them to communicate and be in harmony with nature. Elves possess an affinity with nature and the earth that Men may see as "magic." Their memories and dreams are as vivid as real life. Their unusually keen eyesight enhances their proficiency with bows and arrows during battle.
Tolkien saw Elves as human beings prior to the original sin; while this made them perfect (it is specifically told that not a single Elf joined Morgoth or Sauron, the Enemies), it also made them less adaptable than the mortal Men, that appeared after them. By the Third Age (the time of The Lord of the Rings), the importance of Elves in affairs of the world is diminishing, and only a few of them are left in Rivendell, Lothlórien, and the Mirkwood. Many of them can be seen walking west, towards the Grey Havens, to leave Middle-earth forever, and those who stay in the meanwhile know that it is their fate to "diminish and go West". None of them are to remain in Middle-earth after the end of the Fourth Age.
the Elves are a sundered people. They awoke at Cuivienen (the Waters of Awakening) in the East of the continent of Middle-earth, but some time after that, they split into two main groups, which were never fully reunited...
In Brief, the Sundering is as follows:
Their story is thus: When Oromë came to the land of Cuivienen, where the Elves had come into being, and dwelt and summoned them to the land of Valinor, they were suspicious of him. Three of the Elven tribes elected to send their leaders to Valinor to investigate. These were Elwë of the Teleri, Finwë of the Noldor, and Ingwë of the Vanyar. In due time, Elwë, Finwë and Ingwë returned to Cuivienen, and told the Elves of the glory of Valinor, and there befell the Sundering of the Elves. The Vanyar and the Noldor were persuaded, along with some of the Teleri, and followed Oromë into the west. These have been known ever since by the name Eldar, which Oromë gave to them in their own language. The remainder of the Teleri, along with other, unknown tribes, remained suspicious, and spread gradually throughout the wide lands of Middle-earth. They have been known ever since by the name Avari, meaning 'the Unwilling' or 'Those who Refused the Summons' in their ancestral language.
Having never come to Valinor, the Avari remained a wild folk, dwellers of forests. Little is known of them. Word has not come down about any cities they have built, or great deeds they have done. It is rumored, however, that some of the Avari were captured by Morgoth, taken to the pits of Utumno, and bred into Orcs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Avari are Those who Refused the Summons of Oromë, or simply The Unwilling. Together with the Nandor and the Sindar, they are called the Moriquendi (literally Elves of Darkness), in recognition of the fact that they did not see the light of the Two Trees. While all of the Eldar departed Middle-earth by the early Fourth Age, it appears that the Avari stayed.
NOTE: The Moriquendi are Tolkien's 'Dark Elves'. They are NOT evil... There is no equivalent of 'Drow' in Tolkien. The term Dark Elf refers solely to the unfortunate fact that they never saw the light of the Two Trees of Valinor. That is not to say that certain elves have not committed evil (or at best arrogant, vain or selfish) acts. The kinslaying over that business with the Silmarils, for example, when the sons of Feanor murdered the Sea Elves and stole their ships to leave the west.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Eldar are those who accepted the summons. Their name, literally Star People, was given to them by Oromë. They comprise three tribes: the Vanyar, the Noldor, and part of the Teleri.
Those of the Teleri who refused to cross the Misty Mountains, and stayed in the valley of Anduin, are called the Nandor (Valley People).
Those of the Nandor who left the Anduin under the leadership of Denethor and came to Beleriand are called the Laiquendi (Green Elves).
Those of the Teleri who came to the shores of Belegaer but decided to stay there are called the Sindar (Grey People or Grey Elves).
The Noldor, the Vanyar, and those of the Teleri who stayed with them to the end are called the Calaquendi (literally 'Elves of Light).
Some of the Noldor returned with Fëanor to Middle-earth, and at least some of these remained there through the Third Age.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More to follow... Details on individual elf tribes, etc...
This thread has been a lot more successful and productive than I first thought it would be.
There maybe some jobs going along this line of work soon for anybody interested :)
Sounds interesting, bear me in mind.
In this thread it seems that i have spawned a rough beast - dreadful of countenance, terrible in aspect, yet glorious in fruition...
Great to see so many taking a healthy interest in 'proper' Middle Earth matters, eh? This can only be a good thing!
Aden Valliano
09-09-2004, 15:08
fasin, one error, a typo i think, you refer to sindar elves as dark elves, moriquendi, shouldn't that be silvan elves (wood elves)?
~ The Sindar - Grey Elves - Elves ofthe Twilight ~
Though Tolkien doesn't state this explicitly, 'grey' here clearly has a secondary meaning related to 'twilight'. With the unique exception of Thingol himself, the Grey-elves are technically Dark Elves, Moriquendi, but they are also Eldar of the Great Journey who almost came to the Blessed Realm, and who spent millennia with a Maia as their Queen. Of all the Elven kinds who remained in Middle-earth, the Grey-elves were the highest: it was partly for this reason that they are normally called 'Elves of the Twilight' rather than 'Dark Elves'.
The Silvan Elves were also Moriquendi from the same Teleri stock. We are both half right. Technically the Sindar are Dark Elves (Avari), but also come from the bloodlines of Elves of the Great Journey (Eldar) too. Hense they are more properly called Elves of the Twilight.
Well spotted.
i have a d/l'ed document that has some quickie info about the valar on it if anyone is interested. not sure where i got it from, but it has some approximate domain info and it runs the gamut of all the valar. keep in mind it is not detailed info tho, not like the excellent details here, just a quick list with some basic info.
A couple Brief Historical notes of interest:
Above (Fasin I think) Says:
"berzerker warriors who 'fought like bears' or 'with the bears great strength', while they may not be suggessting that they any actual metamorphosis took place (hmmm)"
Ber may mean Bear or may mean Bare---it is unknown---but I lean toward Bear, surk or serk is Warrior or Fighter. But the Bersurk was not a fabrication; he was the consummer of a Northern European mushroom of the Argaric family that is large red capped with white pieces of the veil scattered across it't top that look like salt. It grows under the birches and if you look it up it will probably be listed as poisonous in a book. It is only found in Russia and Finnland as far as I know, but my be in scandinavian counties as well.
The mushroom when eaten, should be dried or cooked or may cause gastronomic difficulties, will after a short time produce an altered state which I can not recall; then later I think about 6-8 hours will produce a state of hightened strength. In one story I recall a man was able to put two 100 Lb bags of grain on his shoulders and walk 20 miles through the woods (read cross country here) to his home. This state of strength lasts about a day; following that the users perception is affected; i.e. he is tripping---can't step over a stick on the ground because the user sees it as too high to overcome; this period lasts for 8-12 hours then the user comes down and sleeps for 24 hours. Hence in a some Norse stories you will come across references to sleeping Vikings being caught after a battle and captured or killed.
Elsewere above Aden says;
"arthur (aragorn) will come back to claim his throne and save britain (arda) from complete destruction"
This is all news to me that Tolkien meant for Aragorn to represent Arthur (Uther) who saves Britain. I would be interested in references for this perspective. I believe Tolkien would have known that Arthur and his court were Irish, and therefore of Norse stock, and would not save the brits from anything. Uther and his court are in historical records of Irish kings from (if I recall correctly) about 400 AD. Of the round table there is no record, but it would not be out of the ordinary to have one. Lords were known to fight and kill each other over such small things as seating or even a piece of meat. It was kind of the Macho thing.
Uther/Arthur and his 'Knights' (at least those of the popular British/English mythologies) were in fact of Celtic stock, thought to be based somewhere in the Glastonbury area of England, Wessex of Old.
One of the things Tolkien was trying to do in his writings was provide England/Britain with as rich a mythology as other european countries had. It was very much his habit to take elements from the few existing British mythologies and incorporate these into his works.
With the Silmarillion in particular Tolkien wasn't writing a book to publish, he was trying to write an alternative English History, as he always felt ours lacked a little colour.
And a major part of Arthurian legend is that he and his knights lie sleeping, ready to come forth to save England (Yes England) at its moment of greatest need.
In Celtic legend there were the SKYCLAD warriors who would charge naked into battle, daubed in wode, hair spiked with fat or dung, no shield, no helm, weilding broadsword or battleaxe two handed. They worked themselves up into berserk states with the aid of fermented liquer and narcotics, and believing themselves god-touched, would be fearless in battle and oblivious to injury.
These also conform to what Balac has said regarding the possible literal meaning of Berserk - the naked fighter. Or as I like to fondly think of them - coked up 'shroom-heads with a penchant for body-peircing, body art, and homicidal nudism.
Aden Valliano
09-09-2004, 20:06
as i understand the popular legend, Arthur was the son of Urther, who was an actual historical figuree, and was the King of Dumnonia around 480AD. Dumnonia being a british kingdom between Kernow (cornwall) to the west and Siluria and Gwent to the north, modern day dorset somerset etc.
Urthur was also the pendragon, a british title meaning high king. the nominal leader of the british kingdoms
please DO NOT confuse anciant celtic briton with england. england is a saxon word derived from angleland and aengleland, because the first bretwalda Aelle was in fact an Angle, not a saxon.
mmore to the point, the britons were descended from the belgic celts who faught against the Irish, and after roman withdrawl, the "black shield Irish" raided all the british kingdoms, and established thir own one in north wales.
historically speaking arthur is also sometimes portryaed as roman, not british, being perhaps a wealthy roman landowner. in this case Artoris is perhaps a better name than arthur, as seen in the recent film.
arthur was never a king except in medieval romance,
the point i was making was that tolkiens influences for gondor are drawn from medieval romance, a literary style from which fantasy evolved, and the arch typical piece of medieval romance are the legends of King Arthur, though what we read today is the highly sanitised and editted victorian version which caused the change from medieval romance to fantasy writing.
fasin, you're right of course, the sindar never saw the light... but i'm always loathe to put them as moriquendi because they undertook the journey. elves of twilight is the best way i've ever heard of referring to them.
on note to elven hair...
an isdsue thats been raisded before, mainly as a criticism of the film is that the golden hair of glorfindel and galadrial is due to them seeing the light of the trees. all the Noldor, high elves had golden hair, or silvery hair.
elves that didn't, had dark hair.
rivendell, the last vestiges of the Gil-Galads kingdom is mainly noldorin elves, (golden haired) but led by Elrond Halfelven, who was born in middle earth, and so had dark hair.
Mirkwood, populated mainly by the silvan folk would be darkhaired, though thranduil is definatly described as golden headed, and i can't recall why.
Peter jackson's response was clear that him, or maybe his script writers either didn't understand the significance, or thought no one else would. maybe they never read the silmarrillion. they said, westen elves dark hair, eastern elves, gold. and by coincidence, get it right for the key elven characters.
the thing with arwen glowing is absurd, because glorfindel does that. its the power of the valar, the grace, if oyu will, shining through "an elven lord revealed in all his glory". arwen shouldn't be able to do that.
i think
i'm no tolkien scholar by any means, i am very good an english history though...
Galdor_Niphredil
09-09-2004, 22:19
The Istari were apparently sent to Middle earth after a meeting of the Valar, summoned it seems by Manwe who declared that :
‘They must be mighty and peers of Sauron but must forgo might and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men.’
It seems that at first only two of the Istari came forward, Curumo(Saruman) and Alatar perhaps as the others were objectionable to Manwe’s furher statement that :
‘This will imperil them, dimming their wisdom and knowledge, and confusing them with fears, cares and wearinesses coming from the flesh.’
Clearly the thought of the loss of their full power was not a thought relished by the other ‘Wizards’.
Seeing that only two of the Istar had come forward Manwe then questioned the absence of Olorin(Gandalf) at the council. At this point Olorin entered after a ‘long journey’ and seated himself at the edge of the council and asked what Manwe would have of him. Manwe then told him that he wished Olorin to go as the third messenger to Middle-earth. To this the Grey Pilgrim declared he was:
‘too weak for such a task and that he feared Sauron’.
To this Manwe replied saying that was all the more reason to go and ordered him to go as the third, though through his further comments it was clear that by Manwe he was not thought of as third in the order of the Istari and Curumo remembered it
So even Gandalf was wary of travelling to Middle Earth but was thought of most highly by Manwe (to the obvious frustrations of Saruman). Perhaps this is the first signs of a rift between the two wizards ?
So the three messengers had been chosen but the Vala Yavanna insisted that Saruman took Aiwendil (Radagast) with him, and Alatar took Pallando as a friend.
The Five Messengers and the Valar who chose them:
Istar: Chosen by
Curumo (Saruman)-Aule
Mithrandir (Gandalf) -Manwe and Varda
Aiwendil (Radagast)-Yavanna
Alatar -Orome
Pallando -Orome *
* though in some other writings JRRT said that Pallando had been chosen by Mandos and Nienna..
Think that PJ just wanted to differentiate between the Rivendell elves and the Lorien elves... the colour of their hair was a secondary concern cinematically...
On that note it wouldnt be a bad thing to bring the movies into the mix where appropriate... many folks onthe servers only experience of Middle Earth has been at the flicks...
Aden Valliano
09-09-2004, 23:59
persoanlly i prefer to be true to the books, and trhen go for the movies where the books are ambiguous...
for instance, nowhere is legloas desrbibed as golden haired... and what i know of him suggests he wouldn't be. but his father is, and i read an essay on elven genetics that says golden hair is a dominant gene (don't ask how someone worked it out) so i'm happy to give PJ the benefit of the doubt there.
in other areas, i prefer books as opposed to cinematic translation
Concerning hobbits - and their Linguistical origins.
Although our server is of course more based on LOTR than the Hobbit, without the earlier book there would be no LOTR, so I thought I'd start with a look at how 'hobbits' came about, and even hhow 'The Hobbit' was first started.
It seems that whilst getting rather bored with marking exam papers, somthing happened that changed fantasy literature, to quote the man himself:-
"All I remember about the start of 'The Hobbit' is sitting correcting School Certificate papaers in the everlasting weariness of that annual task forced upon academics. On a blank leaf I scrawled: 'In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit.' I did not and do not know why."
He has also commented about how names always generate stories for him, rather than stories generating names. So our world all came about because of that one word -'hobbit', at the time Tolkien himself didn't know what it meant, and in writings has said 'I thought I'd better find out what hobbits were like'.
Over time Tolkien decided the word hobbit must have come from a word of old english construct - 'holbytla', a word that translates as 'hole-builder'. And this is where the story of hobbits start, Tolkien realised that his original line could be read as 'In a hole in the ground there lived a hole-builder', and used this as one of the basic elements of hobbits.
It has also been put forward that that a lot of the other elements of hobbits comes from the thirteen words that follow 'hoax' in the dictionary, or at least that did follow it until the word 'hobbit' itself arrived in the english dictionary.
This side of things is of course conjecture, but I do find it interesting how much Tolkien develops his characters from their names rather than the other way round.
Aden Valliano
10-09-2004, 10:00
its also interesting to compare the styles of the hobbit and lord of the rings. the hobbit, in tolkiens own words has a fairy tale element and is often quite light hearted, whereas lord of the rings is a far more serious prose. but it wasn't intended to be, tolkien originally planned to write LOTR like the hobbit, but realised as he was writing that this just wasn't going to work. one of the few fairy tale elements left in it, is the fox right near the start when pippin frodo and sam have left hobbiton and our about to camp for the first night. th hobbit is full of little interludes like that, LOTR had higher goals in mind.
does anyone want or need a history of Gondor and Arnor? much of the stuff here is taken from the Silmarillion and isn't commonly known, but the rise and fall of the NUmenorean Kingdoms in middle earth is well documented in the appendices of LOTR... i can write if you guys want to read it, but i don't want to waste space and time here
Nothing is a waste of space... If its factual (in a Tolkien sense of the word) or interesting in some way people who read this thread will want to read it... Maybe some of this stuff could go into in-game tomes...
If folks are too busy with more pressing matters contributors here could maybe put them together within the NWN toolset and send them to Kev.... How about that ?
Aden Valliano
10-09-2004, 11:20
wouldn't that be cool??? books in the world written by PCs!!
history of the dwarves by Ibun kibil-tarak or an account of Numenor by Kail Cadarn...
i like the idea!
Up to Kev of course... what do you think Kev :)
I think this was mentioned a while ago... I could be wrong.
It sure is a great idea :)
Anyway, i'm doing a lot of written work today, so i'll get this idea moving.
An element of player involvement is really important to development, so I want to seup a 'Player Content Team', or PCT.
This team will include any keen, creative players, or anyone who fells that they can contribute to the development of the world through creative writing, research, ideas and designs. You don't need to ask to become a member - just chip into the thread.
I'd like one person to head up the team, just to be in closer contact with myself and any other dev team members. ghost81, would you like this role? It's no huge responsibility, you'd just be acting as a liasion really.
So what will PCT do?
Research: As we are already seeing in this thread. I am very keen to give our world its own unique background - something that tells us why things are the way they are. I want to do away with all this FR background and bring in pure Middle Earth themes.
So general discussion of Middle Earth is useful as when i read through it, I will be taking your content on board in development.
Creative Writing: There is no end to the number of books we can have in the world, and the more the better. We want to provide a strong Middle Earth atmosphere and to educate those new players or existing players about Middle Earth. In doing so, we are getting the right players on the server and the quality of roleplay improves. Feel free to use ANY of your research and forum content to produce book blue prints - simply make a post of all the title and text you want to see in a book and I will make it.
Ideas and Designs: Something we could do to an area? Is there an item or feature we could introduce to enhance the world? I see the PCT as the MAIN player link to making such things happen and the PCT will contain a lot of the more experienced and informed players.
A note on items though - I'm interested in items that benefit the community as a whole, NOT you! If you want an item introduced, please explain why and don't just give reasons based on 'my experiences'. If you post an item suggestion, please post name and properties and description.
Anyway, there are some of the main roles of the PCT sorted. I hope that this team can really add a lot more to the community and really help improve and speed up development!
I also have a little mission for the PCT, if they are willing to accept...
Item descriptions! I'd really like to see, eventually, all our existing custom items having their own descriptions! Heres how PCT can help:
1. Make a post (one post per item please)
2. Name the item you're writing for (e.g. Orc Greatsword)
3. Post the text for the items description (please check spelling, punctuation and grammar. I will, but can you do so too please)
4. I'll copy and paste it onto the item blueprint!
5. See your work online!
I hope we get some interest in this. Player involvement makes a good rp community imo. All support is appreciated. Delegating some of this does help me to shoot down some of the priority tasks :)
Just in reply to the above, yes I'm interested in the role, jsut let me know what you want sometime and we'll get the ball rolling
You can start now :)
If you have any specific requests, you can just let me know on IRC.
Otherwise, my post details all the different sorts of things you can do. Thise item descriptions especially :) Have fun.
For the purpose of re-doing the descriptions, is there anywhere in particular we should start. Stuff likely to be encountered early by new players was my thinking.
Plus, not one of us knows what all the items are that need attention... Anyone spotted any belters, like the Ring of the Wood Elves for example...?
Is it a problem if an item's name need to be changed?
*Veld nudges Lolinus... "Sober up lad... time to go to work"* :)
Feel free to use your own knowledge of the world. Starting with the lower level items and working your way up is a good idea.
If you know of an item that has no description, or is a standard item with a FR description, make a post of the item name with its new description.
When i get time, ill produce some lists of items that need sorting, but in the meantime, im sure you all know a lot of items that currently have no description.
Just a quick suggestion - if you're looking at items and writing descriptions on them youmay want to post a list of the ones you're looking at here - just so we're not duplicating one anothers work.
I'm looking forward to seeing what we come up with and will be writing some descriptions myself soon.
Give me half an hour and i'll produce a list for you. Im thinking of doing this in sections; for example, i'll post a list of light armour, then medium, etc.
That would be good, then people can put names to things they are interested in doing, and as I said above prevent duplication of work.
~ Woses - the Wildmen of the Woods ~
The Woses - a name among the Rohirrim for the shy, secretive people known in Elvish as the Drúedain. Though never populous, the end of the Third Age saw these people reduced to a few populations in the southern parts of Middle-earth, especially in the Drúwaith Iaur ("Old Drûg land") and Drúadan Forest of Rohan, where the Rohirrim came into contact with them.
A white-skinned, pygmy-like race, the Woses are a wild woodland people skilled in wood-craft better than any man, for they had lived as naked animals invisibly among the trees or many Ages and cared not for the company of other peoples, though they were counted among the Edain.
The Men of Gondor called the Woses, the Wildmen of Druadan and believed that they were descended from the even more ancient Púkel-men. They were an alien folk to the other Men: a bit like Dwarves in stature and endurance, stumpy, clumsy-limbed - with short, thick legs, and fat, "gnarled" arms - had broad chests, fat bellies, and heavy buttocks. According to the Elves and other Men, they had "unlovely faces": wide, flat, and expressionless with deep-set black eyes that glowed red when angered. They had horny brows, flat noses, wide mouths, and sparse, lanky hair. They had no hair lower than the eyebrows, except for a few men who had a tail of black hair on the chin.
In the First Age of the Sun these were the people who lived in harmony with the Haladin in Beleriand, who called them Drûgs. To the Elves they were known as the Drúedain and to the Orcs they were the Oghor-hai. Another name for them among the Rohirrim, was Rógin.
Aden Valliano
10-09-2004, 15:14
when i go off to uni, i may, or may not still be able to play this online *OH NO* but i would like to stay a part of this world, this is something i can stay involved in for when i can't hook up o the server.
there are plenty of standard items in there, in act most of them, that need descriptions being tolkienised... thing of things like rings of resistance, amulets of protection, nympth cloaks
on that last item in partcular, i think a name change, as nympths don't really feature in the world.. maybe we can link it to some other chreature, a hobbit cloak perhaps hehe
Fasin: Thats a new one - I'll drop it in :)
A selection of heavy armours here which require descriptions!
Banded Might
Belegost Mail
Cirith Ungol Plate - DONE
Eomers Plate
Epic Erebor Plate - DONE
Gloins Bloodline Armour
Hand Of Sauron
Legendary Banded Mail - DONE
Legendary Full Plate - DONE
Legendary Half Plate - DONE
Legendary Splint Mail - DONE
Maedhros Plate
Mordor Orc Plate -DONE
Numenorean Plate - DONE
Orodruin Banded Plate
Plate Of Gondor - DONE
Plate Of The Mark - DONE
Plate Of The Mountainlord
Prism Plate - DONE
Reinforced Plate - DONE
Slann Plate - DONE
The Undermountain King
Uruk Hai Plate - DONE
White Hand Plate - DONE
Have some fun sifting through those :)
I'll edit from time to time those which have been 'done' on this list.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'll take on board the legendary range to start with. Should get somthing written for them overnight.
So I've got these:
Legendary Banded Mail
Legendary Full Plate
Legendary Half Plate
Legendary Splint Mail
Aden Valliano
10-09-2004, 17:25
i'll take on
Nurmenorian Plate
Plate of Gondor
Plate of the mark
Reinforced Plate
i'll also redo Nympth cloaks, as nympths aren't seen in LOTR really, if oyu don't object kev...
ummmm, is it possible you can tell me where i can find these armour, or see the stats/look of them, it'd be good if the description matches what the plate does
Id suggest that you only write for the ones you know about :)
Sure think up something for the cloaks.
Aden - I believe plate of Gondor and Mark are available in Minas Tirith and Edoras.
I think the Numenorian plate is the stuff we carried out of Minas Morgul, someone involved in one of those raids may have some, try Veld or Calia, I know I don't have any. As for the reinforced plate I can't help you there I'm afraid, may also be Edoras, definitely worth a look.
Whilst on the topic I'll do the Hand of Sauron as well, its what Lolinus wears, so I have the plate to look at before I start writing.
I'll have a go at these heavy armours, because i know what their properties are (or can easily find out) :D
Cirith Ungol Plate
Mordor Orc Champion Plate
Epic Erebor Plate
Numenorean Plate
Prism Plate
Slann Plate
White Hand Plate
Not sure about the others but ill keep an eye out for them...
~ Númenórean Plate ~
Once worn by the mighty Kings of Men - proud and great - in another age... A masterwork of the royal artificers of Númenor, this magnificent full-plate was a glory to behold in its heyday. But as the one who wore it fell into shadow, like its bearer, the bright steel dimmed and lost its majesty. Becoming dark and cold.
An age of the World has passed and yet still the craft of Númenór survives, its makers long forgotten, its origns drowned in the Downfall. Mighty and imperishable is the armour of the Nazgûl. Imbued with potent enchantments, undimmed, millennia old, to not only protect its wearer from harm on the field of battle, but to lend an endurance greater than their own, to be greater in skill and fortitude, and to withstand all but the most formidable of foes.
The warrior who goes to war so clad... as were the Kings of old... shall be dread indeed...
I can see this might be a bit wordy. Perhaps theres enough in this one for a Book about the Slann race (the first two paragraphs perhaps)... I got carried away beacause I liked the idea of justifying the creatures we meet on the server that arent 'officially' part of Tolkien's Middle Earth. The half-lizards could be a pygmy sub-race of the Slann, for example. Now I'm rambling... Anyway...
~ Slann Plate ~
The Slann are no more... Yet the Slann are... What remains today in isolated pockets of Arda, seemingly forgotten by the Valar, are a degenerate and primitive relic of a race left over from the Elder Days... Was it out of the profusion of creation that was the Ainulindalë the Old Slann came into being..? Perhaps in the Marring of Melkor was this dischord struck into life... or perhaps not. How they remained hidden is unknown. An un-named Maiar, whose task it was to keep them apart from the Children of Ilúvatar, perhaps. It is not known save in the mind of Ilúvatar.
The works of the Old Slann were manyfold and great. In their time, magic was in their very bones and they forged, in secret, things of wonder, far from the lands of Men and Elves, who knew them not. The barely sentient lizard-men who weild them now, comprehend not their splendor, nor remember their history.
The thick, over-lapping plates of this heavy suit of armour, appear to be comprised of an iridescent material as hard as iron. Ancient beyond knowing and intricately worked by no hand of Elf, Dwarf or Man. It is as if some alien alchemy has transformed a hard shell-like material into something metallic, and shaped it thus.
Its ridged surface, adorned with projections and flanges, seems designed to deflect arrows and spear thrusts away from its wearer. So closely, so neatly, are the plates joined, that only the most skilled of archers could place a shaft at any point of weakness...
This is great stuff! Keep on rolling it out!
~ Prism Plate (Thrice Blessed Plate) ~
Whether the Númenórean knight who wore the first of its kind was true to the Valar, or a dupe of Sauron, is not known. While his name is long forgotten, the artifice of his smithies and his wisdom in the lore of Dragons is not. These magnificent works of the metalsmith's art, offer the wearer tremendous protection in combat, but furthermore defend him from extremes of heat and cold.
Prism Plate is so called for a unique effect of sunlight upon its iridescent metal surface. How this was achieved is an art lost with the Fall of Númenór, but graven into its very design are Adûnaic runes of warding against the vile and terrible exhalations of several Wyrms, earning it another name in lore - "Thrice Blessed Steel".
Aden Valliano
10-09-2004, 21:50
fasin, with all respect, the name and stats of nurmenorean plate don't actually imply a purely evil item, and considering a fair number of good and neutral chars use them, i thought a more neutral description might be better?
Nurmenorean Plate
The Men of Nurmenor were Sea Farers, they came from the west to middle earth as teachers and loremasters, and so great was their skills and crafts that their works stand tall and fair today. However, in times of darkness they put their crafts to armour and weapons, with the same degree of excellence as to anything else.
This armour was forged in an age gone by in the great forges of Nurmenor, for the best warriors of the king himself. Designed to imbue its owner with the heightened skills of the best warrior, and the endurance to survive on the field of combat, whilst being strong enough to turn all but the mightiest blow.
Yet the forges of Nurmenor grew cold, their power diminished and the craft that once fought the rising darkness was employed to enhance it. this armour grants its bearer enhanced protection, for good or for ill...
Plate of Gondor
Mighty were the works of nurmenor, and mighty still are the works of their descendants. the Smithis of Gondor have spent an age and more preparing their craft and wrought an armour designed to protect the best soldiers of the city. With strong welds that can turn even the sharpest sword this armour seems to give its owner strength beyond their own to go out and do their stewards command.
However the smiths of gondor have long learned that the enemy can corrupt men and metal to its own end, and so have had this armour blessed, that it may only be used in defence of the free peoples, by those who seek to end the darkness, not enhance it
Plate of the Mark - couldn't actually find this armour, looked in edoras... this description is based on rohirrim soldier armour
the Lords of the Mark are horseman, who rely on the speed of the horse, and fastly flung spear, or slashing bright sword. but even a horseman may end up fighting hand to hand, unhorsed on the field of battle. this armour is strong but supple, light enough to be born by steed, but strong enough to protect its owner from harm.
Sword of the Gondorian Adept
while an ordinary blade may serve the common soldiers, this sword is designed for the true knights of gondor, folded sharpened steel give this blade a keen edge to slash through even the strongest armour. no true knight is without his guardian spirit though, and tihs blade has been blessed by a priest of Manwe for additional powers, but beware to him that wields it for other than its true purpose, this sword is designed to protect and uphold life, not to needlessly waste it. this sword is for a true knight of Gondor.
Nympth Cloak - i suggest a rename to Vanyar Cloak, as nympths don't exist in middle earth
The Vanyar are a group of elves unknown to many, even of their kindred in middle earth. yet among those of the Noldor, the memory of the happy and laughing personalities of those elves who lived under the light of the trees of Valinor lives on. in honour of their kindred sundered by the seas, the elves created these cloaks, designed to make the wearer as charismatic as the Vanyar themselves..
not the best there perhaps, but i thik anyone who lived in valinor would be pretty much happy and joyful, so i don't thinki'm stretching fact too far here...
I'm not implying the armour is evil... but it did come off a Ringwraith... :)
Aden Valliano
11-09-2004, 00:21
i know, i'm not saying mine is betterm, because it probably isn't
but
numenorean plate, would have been worn by warriors of nurmenor. surely not all of these bcame black numenoreans, and of those that did, only a very few were the lords that became ringwraiths...
so there must be some suits, maybe on the bottom of the sea of buried in annuminas or dagorlad that aren't evil we just havn't found them yet.
i mean, the morgul blade had to be blessed to be used fully by a good player, but this armour was open for all...
anyways, guess its up to kev
~ The Lieutenant of Barad Dur ~
This dark and powerful armour was crafted by none other than Sauron himself. Shortly after crafting the One Ring, he decided to make armours for his most important Lieutenants, to better prepare them for the wars he knew were to come.
Knowing that the most likely foes were the Elves this armour has been carefully crafted to tun aside the arrows and spears favoured by such foes.
Not content with this alone, he went on to imbue the armour with powers which would protect his followers from many forms of death. Woven into the armour are magics that add stamina and charm to the wearer, making them better able to lead troops in batte.
Kev... Was wondering if these were generic equipment (in their areas) or NPC specific... If I understood their frequency / rarity it would help with the descriptions.
Cirith Ungol Plate
Mordor Orc Champion Plate
White Hand Plate
If the Numenorean Plate description is too grim, how about using it only on the ones taken from Nazgul... I didnt realize it was the same as the armour taken from Black Numenoreans. I just wrote what felt appropriate. :D
What you wrote was perfect.
The 3 armours you listed are quite rare for good aligned attackers, but for evil, they can be bought very easily from merchants.
~ Cirith Ungol Plate ~
Long in the black smithies of Mordor, have the weaponmasters forged the trappings of war that would protect those that serve the Eye in battle. Though crude of form, the effectiveness of this grim iron armour has been proven time and again. Even in the Black Land traditions prevail and the elite soldiers of Cirith Ungol favour this banded mail over more cumbersome full plate armour.
The emblem of the spider is not merely for decoration. Anointed with the blood of Men and Elves, dark enchantments protect the wearer from the archer's shaft and the rider's lance, while at the same time making them tireless in battle.
~ Mordor Orc Champion Plate ~
Interleaved, iron scale armour of this kind is usually worn by those who have distinguished themselves in the forefront of battle but have attained no significant military rank. This type of armor is typically lighter and less cumbersome, but offers great protection.
The blacksmith's craft and arcane lore have combined to create a suit of pitted metal leaves, that turns aside the strokes of all but the mightiest blades.
~ White Hand Plate ~
Deep in the caverns of Isengard, wheels turn, great fires are stoked, night and day, furnaces belch out black smoke, and hammers ring upon anvils, to feed the ever hungry war machine of the the White Hand.
The armour of the Uruk hai is strong, and those charged with the defense of the gates of the Isengard, is the strongest and thickest of all. Equivalent to half-plate, and heavily reinforced with internal cross-banding, only the most crushing blow, shall cause this plate to buckle or crack. The hand of Saruman the White is upon them and those who wear it shall fight with a terrible, unyielding vigour.
Im going to be away for a fair bit of today, but heres a fresh list olf helmets for you all :)
Black Crown Of Numenor
Circlet Of Arda
Crown Of The Mark
Dren'Haur - DONE
Dunland War Helmet
Dwarf Helmet - DONE
Dwarven Fire Helmet
Eomer's Helm
Evocator Helm
Eyes Of Gorg
Eyes Of Night - DONE
Face Of The Brute
Goldenhelm
Greyflood Circlet
Haradrim War Helmet - DONE
Helmet Of Eorl
Helmet Of Intrigue - DONE
Helmet Of The Flames
Helmet Of The Lieutenant - DONE
Helmet Of The Ranger
Helmet Of The Riddermark - DONE
Horns Of Tolfalas - DONE
Ironfoot Helmet
Mask Of Barad Dur
Mask Of Isengard
Mordor Helmet - DONE
Peace Of Mind
Pure Mithril Circlet - DONE
Saintly Standard
Short Temper
Stunning Aura - DONE
The Dragon-Kin
The Dread Enforcer
The Withering Crown
White Hand Helmet - DONE
Wiseman's Hat
Witch King's Crown
Good stuff so far, i'll be copying it all into the module later today :D
Kev or Ghost - how about posting a list of finalized descriptions as they go into the mod (perhaps in another tread just for that purpose and no other)... that way people know exacly whats been done and accepted without having to browse through all the posts here to check..
Regards my previous post - by list I mean just that, not the entire descriptions (could have worded that better)... Anyway, something interesting...
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~ Ravenhill - An old guard-post of Erebor ~
An outlying hill beneath the height of Erebor, the Lonely Mountain. It stood at the end of a ridge of high ground extending southwards from the mountain itself, overlooking the Running River and the valley of Dale. The Dwarves of Erebor built a guard-post on the hill, and above its chamber for many years lived two intelligent ravens, Carc and his wife. It was they, and the ravens of hill, that gave it its name.
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~ Carc - The father of Roäc ~
Carc seems to have been the chief of those birds, and dwelt with his wife above the Dwarves' guard-chamber on the hill. Thorin recalled him as being wise and famous at the time the Dwarves were driven out of Erebor by Smaug. When Thorin returned to the Lonely Mountain 171 years later, Carc was dead, but the ravens remained, led by his son Roäc.
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~ Roäc - The old raven of Ravenhill ~
Roäc was a very ancient bird indeed: his father Carc had seen Smaug descend on the mountain, and Roäc was no less than one hundred and fifty-three years old ('out of the egg', as he put it) when he met Thorin and Bilbo on the Quest of Erebor. It was Roäc who told the adventurers that Smaug was dead, and who arranged for messages to be passed between Thorin and Dáin Ironfoot in preparation for the troubles that followed.
~ Armour of the Erebor Thanes (Erebor Epic Plate) ~
The Dwarfthanes of the Lonely Mountain are figures of high standing and respect in Erebor society. Their deeds tower above those of their fellows, and many have achieved military rank in war, yet hold no hereditary lordship or title. In keeping with their standing, the Armour of the Erebor Thanes is a magnificent example of the Dwarvensmith's craft.
Unyielding as the stone are the Armies of the Dwarf Lords, and unbreakable is their resolve. In tribute to the Thanes, the master smiths of Erebor have shaped this mighty plate, chased with gold and precious mithril. Graven with runes in the secret tongue by the Forge Priests, the Thaneplate grants the wearer indomitability, able to withstand even the hammer blow of a Cave Troll... never break... never falter.
~ White Hand Helm ~
Saruman the White is no fool. He knows that the allied Free Peoples of Middle Earth will come to assault his stronghold sooner rather than later. To that end he has all the defenses and weapons of war, his devious imagination can devise. Principal among these are his shock troops, the Uruk-hai. To protect them in battle, the elite wear the Helm of the White Hand. Touched by the hand of Saruman himself, the helm greatly enhances the wearers physical strength and focuses the mind.
I've updated both the armour and helmets lists for you to show which ones have been done.
In an effort to make some of the non-Tolkien creatures more Tolkienesque, how about this in a book...
~ The Minotaurs of Tolfalas ~
Tolfalas, also named in the form Tol Falas, ia a large island situated beyond the Ethir Anduin (the Mouths of the Anduin) in the Bay of Belfalas. Its sharp southern cape was traditionally considered as marking the southernmost point of Gondor proper. The men of Tolfalas inhabit a small fortified settlement on that cape. And fortified with good reason. Beyond the heavy wooden palisade is a wild country where roam marauding bands of ferocious beastmen, that men call Minotaurs*. These great, hairy, bull-headed hybrids were one of the many mockeries spawned in the Marring of Melkor, during the First Age of Arda.
Thankfully, never numerous, these monsters were posessed of a terrible strength and a furious blood lust, that only the most stalwart defender could withstand. With the return of the Dark Lord, Sauron, they have been seen again in the lands of Middle Earth, and on Tolfalas they have established a stronghold, where they daily grow in strength and numbers.
* A linguistic note: The origin of the name 'Minotaur', that which is given to describe a race of giant beastmen, is unclear. The exact etymology of that name is difficult to deduce but can be postulated as follows. 'Minotaur' seems to derive from two words in the Elvish tongue: 'mundo', meaning bull, and 'atan', referring to 'man'. By extention we can deduce that from a root such as , 'mundoatan', over time and usage, the word could have changed into the modern common name, 'minotaur'.
- by Ibun Kibil-tarâg, of Kibil-dûm.
A list in English and Elvish of the names of the sub-species of dragons...
Dragon -- Lóki
Black Dragon -- Morlóki
Blue Dragon -- Luinlóki
Cold Dragon -- Ringlóki
Fire Dragon -- Urulóki
Gold Dragon -- Mallóki
Green Dragon -- Calenlóki
Ice Dragon -- Helkalóki
Red Dragon -- Caradlóki
Silver Dragon -- Celeblóki
White Dragon -- Nimlóki
Ice Lord -- Helkalor or Alor-i-Helka (taking a bit of a guess at that one) :P
Galdor_Niphredil
12-09-2004, 13:39
Fasin,
I really like your idea of trying to explain NWN non-Tolkien characters/creatures.
I have found really good quenya-english language translator in .pdf format and can send it you if you want?
just e-mail/pm me if you want it :)
Aden Valliano
12-09-2004, 15:49
Helm of Rivendell
i know this has a description, but as fasin put it, "very good at protecting the head? my god.." so
As all warriors know, the head is a vital part of a fighter, if he cannot see or hear, he is in great trouble, and so the elven smiths of rivendell devised this helm, aiming to prevent the traditonal blow on the head from being incapacitating.
i think that neatly includes the original in a much better way, heheh
Owl-Free
12-09-2004, 15:56
Dunland War Helmet
The more high up warriors within the Dunlending mob would wear these helmets, which were given to them by Saruman, who would have infused magic into them which increased their concentration, and thus making them more focused in battle.
In doing this, it also seemed to make them live longer through their determination.
Face of the Brute
Saruman, at the end of his plans for Isengard, created the perimeter walls. There he placed many troops, standing tall and smug, convinced they were impervious to all attacks.
Leading this rather unusually organised force was the Master of the Perimeter, who wore a rusting, intimidating mask, forced onto his face by Saruman. Enchantments in the helm infused formidable amounts of extra power into the half-orc's body, in the form of huge strength and extra lifespan.
Owl Free - If memory serves, you can buy the Face of the Brute Helm in armorers in evil faction areas. Its not exclusive to the Perimeter Master as far as i know... Does that help?
Kev (or anyone else with any info) it helps to know if the items are unique, rare or commonplace, so any kind of hint regarding that would be great.
Owl-Free
12-09-2004, 16:56
Woopsie, forgot about that bit. I meant to say that "Adventurers can buy these, but apart from that they are very exclusive".
~ Dren'haur ~
The obscure name of this many pinnacled helm and its origins are something of a mystery. Perhaps it is derived from 'dwimor', a word in the tongue of the Rohirrim meaning 'phantom' or 'magic'. If it is so then it is fitting, for this imposing helm, contains no small measure of dweomer.
Any who wear the Dren'haur will be raised greatly in intellect, and benefit somewhat from the protection that it offers from the effects of harmful magic.
Kev...
It looks like the new descriptions are only active on new items... the ones in me inventory are still the same...
*weeps softly* ;(
Suppose its not really possible to update stuff in peoples inventories... a pity that.
Aden Valliano
12-09-2004, 23:53
i agree, my nurmenorean plate isn't updated...
~ Horns of Tolfalas ~
Mighty burnished bronze helms, crowned with the curving horns of a great bull. The Horns of Tolfalas are a rare and magnificent find. Ancient enchantments placed upon the helm, endows one who wears the Horns with incredible physical strength and singular resolve.
I've only copied them into the module - the copy ive put them into isn't the live version yet :)
The ones i've done though will all be there next time we update. However, existing inventory items will NOT have descriptions on them.
If you are gagging to have an armour with a description though, just ask a DM and we'd be happy to swap it for you.
Bah... Curse my dwarfish enthusiasm for crafting... cant be helped :)
Updated the helmets list; Done Dren'haur and Horns Of Tolfalas.
Face of the Brute and Dunland War Helm didnt seem to flow well with me, See about watering it down a bit, as they are not particularly amasing items.
Kev.
I forgot that Dren'haur is also the name of the Dragon that hoards it... perhaps i had better re-do that one and mention him in the description. What do you think?
*Ibun clips Veld across the back of the head - "Stupid boy... can't leave you alone fer five minutes, dammit..."*
~ Mordor Helm ~
Forged in the darkest of Mordor's smithies, tempered in a sacrificial pyre and quenched with Wyrm's blood. This dread helm, bears a grim and foreboding aspect.
Worn by the champions and elite soldiery of the Black Land, it confers upon the wearer, such formidable preturnatural fortitude, that in battle, he will ever be fearless in the face of the enemy, and steadfast of purpose.
~ Helm of Intrigue ~
Crafted by the Elven smiths, an age and more ago, helms such as these are a testimony to their skill. While offering the wearer nothing in the way of additional protection, the Helm of Intrigue is, nonetheless, nothing short of a marvel. Far from being a trapping of war, it is more likely worn by sage, than by soldier.
When worn, the wearer gains the Touch of Vairë, who weaves all things that have ever been in Time into her storied webs in the halls of Mandos. Greatly does he grow in the understanding of Lore and is blessed with an increased strength of will.
Don't worry about the dren helm - what i got was perfect.
Thoughts regarding various items.
Since there are no Cloud or Storm Giants in NWN (as far as I am aware) how about renaming those STR belts:
Lesser and Greater Girdles of Tulkas.
I think that new descriptions might also be necessary, but I cant check this at the moment.
Perhaps the name of Tulkas the Valiant should be reserved for the Belt of Legendary Strength.
As for Gauntlets of Ogre Power, the name of Beren springs to mind, but again, theses are rather commonplace items and it seem a shame to waste such a hero on them. What does anyone else suggest?
Perhaps Armbands of Trollish Might rather than gloves might be more appropriate, considering that they sound a bit more likely to be imbued with strength, while gloves seem apt for the delicate work of Rogues, Bards, Craftsmen and Spellcasters.
~ Blackroot (Morthond) ~
A vale of rich grassland through which the River Blackroot flowed (the river known in Elvish as the Morthond). The river rose beneath the sheer mountainsides of the White Mountains' southern extent, and in the shadowed rocks above its spring was the hidden gateway leading out from the Paths of the Dead.
So great was the dread of the people of that vale for the Dwellers under the Dwimorberg, that they fashioned such blades as this, that they might defend any Man that had just cause to walk the Dimholt Road.
It is said in the Silmarillion that - as he died his body was turned to ash, so kindled with fire was spirit of Fëanor. And it fled westward and has never left the Halls of Mandos...
How about this mighty lord of the Noldor... Fëanor as an NPC with info in the Halls ?
~ Legendary Full Plate ~
Many stories exist about the making of these armours, and they are all but legend. The most compelling of these is that these suits of plate were crafted by the first Dwarven Smiths, under the tutelage of Aule himself.
To be honest ghost, the Legendary range are a sort of 'brand': Legendary Plate; Legendary Chain; Legendary Scale, etc. we could probably get away with one good generic description that could cover the lot. What do you reckon?
Unless you give em new names of course... :naughty:
I know they're a brand, but they're not overly easy to get hold off - and I'm playing on the name - Legenday - no-one lnowws the truth of htese armours, but legends have sprung up about them.
Cool... Guess your right there, Ive never really looked at them so i dont know. Just thought that it was cos they were wrought by the 'Legendary Smith' and they were his finest work on sale at his place of business, so to speak... Thats all i was meaning... :D
Hey, maybe the Legendary Smith is an avatar of Aulë himself, eh?
I will use the description ghost81 gave as the description for the entire legendary range of armours.
So thatsthem done, time for me to move onto somthing else then. Helmets and more armour here I come.
~ Reinforced Plate ~
Early plate armours were impressive to look at, and effective against early weapons. However as weaponsmiths skills grew they were able to forge blades so sharp that they could cut through some armours as if they were not even being worn. As a result armourers were forced to make changes to their designs.
One such change was the overlapping plates that characterise this armour. Rather than a single layer of armour, most of this plate is reinforced by either the piece above of below it, making this armour particularly effective againstswords and other such cutting weapons.
~ Stunning Aura ~
Somehow the makers of this helm managed to capture an element of the essence of the dragons when making it. The charm that dragons can exhibit when speaking to others has become a part of this helm, making the wearer more able to talk and convince others to do tasks for him, and agree with his viewpoints.
As well as this the overwhelming self-confidence of the dragins exudes from the helm into the wearer, making them fear nothing, and able to concentrate in the most dire of circumstances.
~ Helm of the Riddermark~
Made in happier times for Rohan, these are masterfully crafted helms. So good is their construction that they turn aside the blows of lesser weapons and will easily protect a riders skull, should he fall from his horse.
From a time when Saruman was still a friend to Rohan, these helms have been enchanted by the White Wizard and can protect the wearer from the effects of many spells that attack the mind.
From a time when Saruman was still a friend to Rohan, these helms have been enchanted by the White Wizard and can protect the wearer from the effects of many spells that attack the mind.
----- a really nice touch that -----
Ghost - can you jot down what you are workin on / thinkin of workin on. Im a wee bit stumped at the mo and dont want to launch into somthing youve got covered once me mental block breaks.
~ Miruvor - Cordial of Imladris ~
'This will be the death of the halflings, Gandalf,' said Boromir. 'It is useless to sit here until the snow goes over our heads. We must do something to save ourselves.'
'Give them this,' said Gandalf, searching in his pack and drawing out a leathern flask. 'Just a mouthful each - for all of us. It is very precious. It is miruvor, the cordial of Imladris. Elrond gave it to me at our parting. Pass it round!'
As soon as Frodo had swallowed a little of the warm and fragrant liquor he felt a new strength of heart, and the heavy drowsiness left his limbs. The others also revived and found fresh hope and vigour.
The reviving cordial made by the Elves of Imladris and called by them miruvor. A flask of the precious drink was given to Gandalf for the refreshment of the Company of the Ring during the southward journey, but seems to have been lost in his fall from the Bridge of Khazad-dûm.
In game perhaps this could equate to any one of many enhancing potions... But I reckon if we were to have Miruvor it would have to be something pretty rare and a bit special. Like Heal, Greater Restoration, or the like.
Fasin - at the moment I'm really only looking at ~The Helm of the Lieutenant~, although I do have a few ideas for Maedhros Plate as well, other than that go for anything.
Ghost --- Some excellent reference for Maedhros on the Encyclopedia of Arda... if that helps?
~ Ithildin ~
'Look!' he said. 'Can you see anything now?'
The Moon now shone upon the grey face of the rock; but they could see nothing else for a while. Then slowly on the surface, where the wizard's hands had passed, faint lines appeared, like slender veins of silver running in the stone. At first they were no more than pale gossamer-threads, so fine that they only twinkled fitfully where the Moon caught them, but steadily they grew broader and clearer, until their design could be guessed.
At the top, as high as Gandalf could reach, was an arch of interlacing letters in an Elvish character. Below, though the threads were in places blurred or broken, the outline could be seen of an anvil and a hammer surmounted by a crown with seven stars. Beneath these again were two trees, each bearing crescent moons. More clearly than all else there shone forth in the middle of the door a single star with many rays.
'There are the emblems of Durin!' cried Gimli.
'And there is the Tree of the High Elves!' said Legolas.
'And the Star of the House of Fëanor,' said Gandalf. 'They are wrought of ithildin that mirrors only starlight and moonlight, and sleeps until it is touched by one who speaks words now long forgotten in Middle-earth. It is long since I heard them, and I thought deeply before I could recall them to my mind.'
'What does the writing say?' asked Frodo, who was trying to decipher the inscription on the arch. 'I thought I knew the elf-letters but I cannot read these.'
'The words are in the elven-tongue of the West of Middle-earth in the Elder Days,' answered Gandalf. 'But they do not say anything of importance to us. They say only: The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak, friend, and enter. And underneath small and faint is written: I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs.'
A magical substance made by the Elves from mithril, that could only be seen by the reflected light of the moon and stars, and even then remained hidden until a magical word was said. Gandalf translated its name as 'starmoon', but 'moon-sparkle' would be a more literal rendering. The designs on the West-gate of Moria were made from this substance.
Just posting this because I love the idea of it... thats all... and we all need a little extra inspiration now and again.
*Veld bangs head against wall*
Lists updated for you again :)
All strength belts will be renamed to: "Girdle of Tulkas + "
+'s will go from: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10
If someone could think up a generic description for this item brand, that would be great.
~ Girdle of Tulkas ~
Tulkas Astaldo, Champion of Valinor - Greatest in strength is he, whose very name means 'strong' and 'steadfast'. Tulkas delights in wrestling and in contests of strength; and it is in his honour, and with his blessing, that the first of these great girdles of leather and bronze, were fashioned.
It grants the wearer the prodigious strength of a giant, with the ability to bear great burdens without effort, and deliver devastating blows in combat.
Aden Valliano
14-09-2004, 10:05
instead of strength of a giant, why not strength of a Vala?
Let's not get over ourselves :P
OneRedEye
14-09-2004, 12:32
+2 change to common, +10 masterwork, +8 exquisite, +6 respectable, +4 fine.
So you would get 'Common Girdle of Tulkas'
'Masterwork Girdle of Tulkas' etc, etc
Maybe these are not the best choice of words but it gives the idea at least.
~ Mûmakil Boots of the Shaking Earth ~
The Men of Harad are a proud and warlike people, who ride into battle high upon the backs of the mighty Mûmakil. Theses are elephantine creatures whose stride, shakes the very earth as they charge.
These rather cumbersome pieces of footware, first devised by a long forgotten nomadic priest, nonetheless, allow the wearer to move with great speed. Made from the thick hide of an adult bull Mûmak, the spirit of that monstrous beast is in every stitch. Once each day the wearer can call upon him, to stomp upon the earth with enough force to shake its very foundations.
OneRedEye - nice one, I agree that where possible + this and + that want to be as invisible as possible, how about:
+2 --- Lesser Girdle of Tulkas
+4 --- Greater Girdle of Tulkas
+6 --- Champion's Girdle of Tulkas
+8 --- Masterwork Girdle of Tulkas
+10 --- Mighty Girdle of Tulkas, and if the Belt of Legendary Strength (+12) is staying in...
+12 --- Legendary Girdle of Tulkas, or maybe The Girdle of Tulkas.
Thought of a similar idea for cloaks. Following Adens post about Nymph Cloaks
Thought of a similar idea following Adens post about Nymph Cloaks, as an afterthought, perhaps the higher level cloaks should radiate varying degrees of light, considering the nature of elves. Maybe, as they are elf-made they should be unusable by evil:
+1 --- Lesser Cloak of Elvish Grace
+2 --- Greater Cloak of Elvish Grace
+3 --- Lesser Cloak of the Sindar
+4 --- Greater Cloak of the Sindar
+6 --- Radiant Mantle of the Teleri
+7 --- Radiant Mantle of the Noldor
+8 --- Radiant Mantle of the Vanyar
... and for rarer, epic versions ...
+10 --- Rainment of Melian
+12 --- Rainment of Elbereth
____________________________________________________
For Blackguards and dark sorcerers everywhere I present the following usable only by evil:
+1 --- Lesser Cloak of Fell Lordship
+2 --- Greater Cloak of Fell Lordship
+3 --- Lesser Cloak of the Morgai
+4 --- Greater Cloak of the Morgai
... and with some sort of sickly radiance ...
+6 --- Lesser Mantle of the Shadow
+7 --- Greater Mantle of the Shadow
+8 --- Dark Mantle of The Eye
... and for rarer, epic versions ...
+10 --- Unlight of Ungoliant
+12 --- Black Mantle of Gorthaur
Galdor - Thanks for the Elvish-English / English-Elvish PDFs. Very handy they will be. Maybe Kev could find space for them somewhere on the Website so as others can download them... Handy when creating character names - especially for elves, obviously - and also for RP.
~ Haradrim War Helm ~
The war helm of the Haradrim is designed to be worn by non-ranking officers above the rank and file. As a status symbol, it inspires confidence in the wearer's leadership abilities, gives him focus on the battlefield, and is crafted to be especially effective against crushing blows.
~ Rangers' Greaves ~
Crafted by the Dúnedain for journeys in the wild, these robust leather boots are comfortable to wear and practical. They make the wearer more physically resillient and able to endure the rigours of travel.
~ Boots of the Naugrim (Dwarf Ironshods) ~
Made by the Dwarves of the Iron Hills from the toughest leather, reinforced with iron throughout and finished off with steel toe-caps, these sturdy boots are designed to be worn by Dwarven infantry on the march. Dwarf Ironshods, as they are commonly known offer considerable physical protection, yet are also comfortable enough to make the privations of a forced march more bearable.
Boots such as these were worn by the soldiers of Dáin II Ironfoot on their march to the support of Thorin Oakenshield at Erebor, for the Battle of the Five Armies.
~ Helmet of the Lieutenant~
Forged in the fires of Mount Doom, the very design of this helm is strangely compelling. The strong lines and curves of this helmet seems to imbue its wearer with an aura of power and leadership.
Made for the wars against elves this helm will protect its wearer from some of the pure energies of elves who have senn the light of Valinor.
The power coursing through this helmet aids its wearer in staying focused on the task at hand, even enabling them to ignore the cold touch of fear.
~ Dwarf Helmet ~
Worn by many a Dwarven warrior the design of this helm is made to compliment perfectly the shorter stature of the dwarves. Many a blade swung at a Dwarven wearer of this helm will catch up in the sweeping horns that are integral to its design. These horns will then snag up the blades of the foe, allowing the Dwarven warrior to last that little longer in combat.
Just like to say that I have it on very good authority that many of these descriptions will be online after the next update.
However there is still lts more to do and it would be great to see more people becoming involved in this. If you'd rather not write descriptions yourself, but own any of these items that haven't been written about yet, please don't hesitate to contact myself (normally Lolinus Balix or Negnus Smallix in game) or probably Fasin as well (often online as Veld or Ibun) to tell us their properties. One of the reason some items haven't been written about is because we don't know enough about some of these items, so any information would be greatly welcomed.
If you're going to have a go at writing any descriptions and want a few pointers these are the things I tend to bear in mind when writing about an item:
- How common is it?
- Where is it usually found?
- Which if Tolkien's races would be the main users of this item?
For the more common items this is usually enough as it gives you somthing to work from, its nice to tie in the area/p