View Full Version : The MERP PRC Pack
Ah, Here I shall give you all information about the Middle Earth Roleplay Prestige Class Pack. The name may change, as many things are also being planned for it. But that is for another time.
First thing is first.
Race and Existing Class Changes
*For the moment there are only two changes to Races, the implementation of Immunity to Disease for Elves, and slight Fire Resistance for Dwarves, these are both in keeping with the theme of Middle Earth, and both abilities were said to have been given to them.
Class Changes are a bit more noticeable however, These may cause players to be distraught, but know this, I could care less, if you want to use uber characters, go elsewhere, with these changes, having a good character will require more work.
*First off, the Shadowdancer no longer receives Hide in Plain Sight at level 1, in fact, it doesnt receive it at all. It now requires the player to have 25 dexterity, 30 Hide skill and 30 Move Silently skill before it becomes available to choose as a class specific feat. The classes that can take it will be Rogues, Shadowdancers, Assassins, Rangers, and Monks.
*Another change will be the removal of both Red Dragon Disciple and Arcane Archer. (no moaning, other classes are made to make up for the loss, ones more in keeping with Middle Earth, and more balanced too.)
*Devastating Critical shall be deactivated, this is to ensure that no one can take it at all, it is banned at the moment, but this is to ensure no one blindly takes it without knowing the rules.
The Custom Classes
Here is a list with a little information on each one. Please note that a lot of the names are only temporarily and are subject to change without notice. :P
*Black Numenorean
An Evil Human class, Will have abilities to oppose those of the free.
*Dwarven Axemaster
Dwarves superior with an axe over all others, I see much pain to enemies from these Warriors.
*Dúnedain Ranger (Previously Ranger of the North.)
Those of the Dúnedain who take up arms and fight for the free, represent all Middle Earth Dúnedain Rangers, Rangers of the North, Rangers of Ithilien, etc...
*Elven Bowmaster
The Elven Archers are without peer and will just be masters over all with a bow.
*Hobbit Shirriff
The Enforcers of the Law in the Shire, dont think this means they are good though, many of the watch was under Sarumans influence.
*Olog Hai
The Towering Troll Brutes from Mordor and Southern Mirkwood, expect much strength.
*Rohirrim Warrior
This one is last on my list, for reasons enitirely my own, needless to say, suprises in store with this class.
*Champion of ....
Instead of Champion of Torm, there will be Champion of each Valar, each with their own characteristics and traits.
As well as these, others may be designed and implemented further along in the hak packs development. I shall keep you posted. More details will be given on each Prestige Class in time.
Misc Changes and Additions
Just a few other things being changed and added.
*The Loading Hints and Text is being changed to suit the Server and the world in which it is set.
*Custom Feats and Skills outside of the Custom Prestige Classes are also planned, more details as they are implemented.
I am hoping you will enjoy this hak greatly once it is completed, which, providing I can get some things done quickly, should not be too long before released. Any comments, Suggestions or other nonsensical babblings I shall read through and take into consideration.
I shall just drool incessantly for now and also help answer any queries/ideas/rants that crop up in here :)
Good stuff Avalyn, I can see this looking quite spectacular when its completed :)
sounds great, Lolinus Dwarven Axemaster, here I come
A new Veld and Ibun and Dimholt then as Champ. of Torm has gone (good, Torm was FR anyway). Champion of Aule and Champion of Mandos woo hoo.
Av - Will the Champion of Ulmo have an innate ability to become a penguin?
Someone hand Kev a flannel.
OK lads, PCT and everyone out there, thinking trousers on... Races and Regions, who does what, and where in Middle Earth... Unless that list is a done deal Avalyn, and you dont want any more suggestions for classes / races?
Races? For another time, its called PRC, standing for PRestige Classes, anyway, the Champion of Ulmo will obviously be the best by far :P
by Races and Regions, I was referring to classes appropriate to areas and cultures... Tremble, the mighty penguin of Death cometh...
25th level Penguin Master - Epic Feats: Summon Dire Penguin, Eat Fish, Slide on Ice, Ride Iceberg.
*reminds himself to make a penguin speficially designed to kill Fasin*
*equips Greater Ring of Penguin Evasion*
*equips +4 throwing haddock*
Apart from Penguin Masters...
Will there be Cleric of..... and Paladin of..... in the same way that there are champions of..... [add Valar of choice] It would be consistant if nothing else. It would also serve to educate players about the powers and avoid the old Paladin of Mystra problem :) or will they venerate the Valar as a whole.
Regarding EVIL Champions of....
I know that CoT was a good aligned class but I think that for balance they could be included. They might best be called Champions of Barad-dur, or Champions of the White Hand, rather than referring to Sauron by name, and not Morgoth (although he might seem appropriate) cos he is long gone. Champions and worshippers of the Valar will be spoiled for choice. :)
Monks - In tolkienesque terms, a monk would be a guy with a bible and a habit. For game purposes the fighting monk could be called something different. Disciple of the Order of....[insert a monastic sounding name appropriate to a valar here], perhaps or Devotee of....[valar]. I think only a few of the Valar would need to be covered. Heres a few ideas.
Manwe - Order of the Breath of Arda
Aule - Order of the Forging Fire
Ulmo - Order of the Secret Depths
Yavanna - Order of the Life of Arda
Tulkas - Order of the Steadfast Heart
Perhaps it would be better to place 2 or 3 tiny outposts (monasteries) in widely spread corners of the mod and let monks start there. That might go some way towards people creating monk characters and not characters with a few monk levels for the feats. Monks are meant to be dedicated individuals after all. One in the Northern Waste or High on a northerly mountain somewhere, one in the deserts of the south, and one in the far east, on the shores of the sea of Rhun.
Paladins and Clerics can choose their own, they dont require prestige classes or even more base classes for them, seeing as their abilities will not change anyway.
Evil Versions will be done, dont think ive left them out.
As for the monks, I cant force monk players to wear a habit and carry a book can I, so I wont even try.
The Fancy names are also all well and good, but players may get confused with the complicated names, I would rather leave it at Champion of Manwë, Champion of Ulmo (weeee), etc... this will avoid confusion when players who do not know extensive amounts of information look at the prestige classes.
I know if I was a player and I didnt know much about the world of Tolkien, I would wonder what the hell a "Disciple of the Order of the Breath of Arda" was, let alone choose it.
As for monk starting positions, that is something you have to take up with Kev, after all, its his server, I have no control over it. And I dont really think many people will be willing to roleplay your bookish monk character type, most will only choose monk to be a fist fighter. (and get that ridiculous speed.)
QUOTE: As for the monks, I cant force monk players to wear a habit and carry a book can I, so I wont even try.
Not what I was saying mate :D... I wasn't proposing a Brother Cadfael class... It fits, the bookish sage, but not a great RP potential there :) Besides, there are Clerics... What I was saying was how a 'monk' would be in a tolkienesque setting (to my mind) and that it didnt really match the 'monks' we have in NWN....
I was just trying to think of a better word for 'martial arts monk'. Seeing as shao-lin temples and kung-fu dojos were a bit thin on the ground in ME. Im not saying they dont belong. Far from it. The PCT re-wrote all their gear (remember :) ), and I personally had a bugger of a time coming up with stuff for the monk fighting gloves.
We'll just leave them alone... It was knockin on 2AM when I posted that drivvel.
How about Order of the Pengun?
Well, at the moment, I have no plans to change monks, but this may change in time, if I did change them, I would be removing their ridiculous speed for one thing.
Monk doesnt necessarily mean they practice martials arts, etc... For example, In one book ive read (one of many), there was a character called Brother Lantern (Wreck will recognise this :P), he became a monk, yet he was a warrior beforehand, although he was a monk, he could still dodge blows and hand out a whacking.
Maybe monks are just men (and women, no offense to Dove :P) who due to their extensive meditation and devout faith can widthstandt more than their fellow man, Endurance kinda thing. It all depends how you want to look at it.
Monks speed advantage will remain however - they will have haste speed at maximum, whilst other characters will have to use their haste casting items, guzzle their potions and caste their haste spells :)
the armour of their failth so to speak. Not wearing armour or bearing a shield could be an act of faith on their part. They are shielded by their faith and are able to batter the infidels with same.
Put like that maybe they can still be the book and bell western variety as well as the silk pyjamas and the dangerous sandals oriental type. And no change needed
Like the idea of Brother Lantern, no pun intended, but the name rings a bell...
No haste....I mustve been the last one to know....argh, now this is going to be annoying...
I thought you'd be happy, now your many enemies will crawl away from you as you smite them :P
I suppose that monks, after all, need to revere all the valar (or Eru himself), or the shadow (in the case of Lawful Evil monks), in order to achieve universal oneness and balance. Individually they can have a special affinity for one or other of the Valar, personal choice, clan affiliations, racial preferences, teachings of monastary of origin, etc
Barking_Mad
12-10-2004, 19:47
Paladins and Clerics can choose their Deities anyway so wouldnt really need seperate classes for each of the Valar. Though some new Cleric Domains may be intresting. :)
maybe....ill look into it :P
Wondering about Olog-hai. Are they meant to be a custom race? Or a prestige class for half-orcs to breed themselves up to Olog-hai status? :) Besides that question, really looking forward to these upgrades. Will make a super world even better. :)
Ursa :)
The Olog Hai will be a prestige class. Its a lot easier to implement this way. Obviously you can't exactly 'breed up', but theres nothing to stop a player making a sub race called Olog Hai and rping it out, then eventualy recieving Olog Hai as a prestige class later on.
One of the features of the Olog Hai prestige class you will like a lot, but im keeping it stum on that until Avalyn announces more :)
Hope that its going to be possible to stop people taking a few levels of Olog-hai for the sake of it then something else. They really shouldnt be suited for anything other than bashing things (lets be honest). If I see an Fighter/Oloh-hai + Rogue, Cleric or levels of anything else - that would be a shame. Hopefully Avalyn has been able to restict things appropriately *prays*
Is it possible to restrict the character to Olog-hai once its taken or will we just have to rely on responsible PR and that people wont play silly buggers with it. :eek:
Apart from that I cant wait to see em. :)
We can make whatever rules we like. Restrictions on the availability and requirements for these classes are taken into consideration before they are created.
aye. but its the devious buggers that you never see comin... that you have to watch for. Theres always a clever sod with a work around... haha...
still I am reassured. :) We can at least make it as difficult as possible to exploit the system.
You really dont like evil prc´s Fasin dont you =)
I totally agree with you that Olog-Hai shouldnt be able to perform the work of rogues with those big fat fingers or perform some cartwheels (lets leave those to girly elves =) but i really dont see the point why they couldnt multiclass at all to non pure-warrior classes since they arent even especially stupid.
Im definately going to play Olog-Hai no matter what their restrictions or abilities will be, so be careful what ye be saying Fasin or i might have to eat your lil axe master for lunch when we meet =)
Got nothing against evil characters at all. Never have had. And Im sure that they will be able to multiclass under certain restrictions. Im sure that Avalyn will have that covered
I believe some of the restrictions in place for Olog Hai are: (note this is NOT final)
- An intelligence MAXIMUM! Could be about 9
- Strength Minimum
- Requires you to be 1 of a select range of classes
- Half Orc, obviously
- You must be evil
I know these arent final like you sais Kev but i cant stop wondering why Olog-Hai would have to be so stupid??
Their description says that they are alot smarter than other trolls, which of course doesnt say that they actually are smart but certainly not near animal intelligence either(if i remember correctly ICE claimed Gothmog [liutenant of the nazgul, not the balrog=] to be Olog-Hai) .
But i better wait until Avalyn releases more accurate info before harassing you guys with annoying questions anymore ^_^
Hate to say it but on that one ICE were inventing their own things. All the Nazgul were fallen kings of men (9 rings for mortal men, doomed to die). If you mean the Lieutenant of their troops, thats possible, but it was an ICE created character, as the only Gothmog to be found in Tolkiens writings (or at least that I can find, I may be wrong) is the balrog Gothmog.
Gothmog was DEFINATELY a Balrog, unless that copy of the Simarillion I read was a forgery :P
Olog Hai could barely utter a coherent sentence, therefore in NWN terms, that translates as 'being unable to speak properly' so if you want to be an Olog Hai, you'll have to fall under that category. Its also in place to prevent players making Olog Hai spell casters which would be grossly out of character for Middle Earth.
Olog Hai PRC is for players wanting to make towers of strength and brute force :)
Yes, i meant the liutenant of morgul (not nazgul) and i really dont think he was ICE invented character, he was mentioned somewhere vaguely and ICE just fleshed it out.
I could remember wrong though, it has been several years since i actually have read about these things
I look for more accurate info when i find the time and ill get back to you.
Olog Hai could barely utter a coherent sentence, therefore in NWN terms, that translates as 'being unable to speak properly' so if you want to be an Olog Hai, you'll have to fall under that category. Its also in place to prevent players making Olog Hai spell casters which would be grossly out of character for Middle Earth.
Olog Hai PRC is for players wanting to make towers of strength and brute force
Thats the stuff. Cheers Kev. That was the point of my post and what was concerning me. Half-orcs are stong and tough. To offset this they have lower INT. Olog-hai are bigger and tougher again. So in the interests of balance they also have to be brick thick. :) Still sounds great to me. Being evil by nature they must be evil in character. Its part of their great strength, their innate viciousness puts the BRUTE into brute strength.
Most poeople forget that the Olog-hai were smart by Troll standards, but thats like comparing a smart rhinoceros with a stupid one. Players will have to remember to grunt a lot or speak in mono-sylables. Thats about their limit. Even at maximum INT an Olog-hai is going to be the intellectual equivalent of one who is severly mentally impared. A giant vicious kid with a hammer and a temper.
One could argue that if something happened to alter that characters alignment (unlikely but not impossibe), the worst that could happen would be that he would have to take fighter or barbarian levels, whatever he had been before the prestige class was reached, until something happened to make him evil again. But he wouldnt stop being dumb.
Uhh... i just wrote very long rant about half-orcs and attributes in general but decided to delete it to avoid any misunderstandings or heated responses =)
I just say my thing shortly and to the point.
Half-orcs are NOT any better warriors that humans, dwarves or even elves, in fact they propably are slightly worse than humans or dwarves.
INT and CHA are alot more important atrributes after HOTU than before it and that downgrades epic half-orcs considerably.
Especially INT is nowadays very important attribute to warrior and all other classes too.
My point is that INT and CHA should not be dismissed as non important statistics to warriors when thinking about balance in game.
Im very tempted to continue on the Olog-Hai intelligence issue too but i think i better not annoy you guys anymore =)
Galdor_Niphredil
13-10-2004, 21:17
This may be of interest re: Gothmog
Gothmog is mentioned only once in the Return of the King, and was second in the line of command on Pelennor Fields(after the Lord of the Nazgul).
It is probable l that he was a man (prb Black Numernorean), as in the books Frodo and Sam see the Nazgul's companions and they are described as men. The truth is that his origins are a mystery , as his race is never mentioned.
source : Encyclopedia of Arda
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda
:confused:
Also regarding Trolls' intelligence:
I agree they are clearly not the sharpest tools in the box, but what about the 'Roast Mutton' chapter in the Hobbit?- plenty of troll talk in that.
I'm afraid I'm kinda half sitting on the fence on this one (ouch!)
INT and CHA are important to Champions, Paladins and WMs, and DEX would you believe is important to DDs (it surprised me for one :) ). But we are talking utter brute force fighters in the Olog-hai, not skill, finesse or inspiration. Thats the point of them I think. Frankly that is just as appealing. Nice and basic and brutal, raw STR and CON. Excellent. We really cant expect them to have a decent INT as well now can we. They are tough enough, NOT to need INT and CHA in battle. Why would they.
If we want to be completely true to JRRT, Elves should be able to kick everyones arses, or at least they could in their heyday, but that would involve altering the races not the classes and the game would TOTALLY favour them as a race... Lets face it Illuvatar did, but that just makes life tough on everyone else.
Half Orcs probably arent better fighters than several other races in JRRT but for the sake of game balance they are strong and tough to offset their weaknesses. Otherwise they would be a very unappealing choice as PCs. Who would want to play a race thats useless at everything. At least they can fight, its what they were designed to do. Sure epic half-orc barbarians or fighters are less comparatively powerful since the introduction of WM, CoT, etc. but to me thats a pity to be honest. It reduces the race already hampered by being unsuited to many clases already, even further.
Few things on this earth swim better than a shark... but it cant climb a tree worth a damn. :) Certain things are suited to certain ways of life.
Galdor - fair comment but they were dumb enough to sit there when the sun came up... rockeries anyone?
ah, sorry i havent replied in a bit, ive been busy...anyway, its like roleplaying an Uruk Hai, Uruk Hai could only ever speak the Black Speech, yet no one goes around roleplaying that do they? You just have to make sure it fits into the world
The First Edition of the MERP PRC Manual has been released, you can view it at http://www.geocities.com/avalynsilversword/MERPUKPRCManual.pdf
Galdor_Niphredil
16-10-2004, 15:36
NICE :)
Ah, sorry, but that was an older one, uploaded the finished one now.
first: very nice work avalyn so such a custom content is great to transform NWN into a MERPG
second: one question:
so first i was shocked when i read about the removal of the arcane archer as i play this class and i like it even although i think he isn't very strong just his AB is amazin...
so i read the stats of the elven bowmaster and thought it's a pity that he doesn't get any extra damage or special critical (like the dunedain ranger) while as the arcane archer has is arrow improvement which means +1 every second level for attack AND damage which i think is very important cause you never really make high damage with a bowmaster... i would suggest to add an extra critical chance to the elven bowmaster....
...it's just my opinion so don't matter or ignore me if you want...
....last words: very nice work!!!...:)
*growls*
Arrows are tiny pieces of wood, I dont think they are meant to be highly damaging, and they will get arrow enchantment, so count yourself lucky, that'll be good for them.
Also, the strong point of an archer is the fact that he is a ranged combat expert, and the fact they fight from afar is more than an advantage in battle, especially if you can run and fire at an uncoming enemy at the same time.
Plus try using a bog standard ranger instead of an arcane archer if you want to do damage with arrows. Their ab isnt as good as an AA but they can pack a punch on a favoured enemy :)
*morez is embarrassed and understands avalyn's growling*
sometimes my english isn't good enough for clear statements...
so: i only thought the arcane archer is settled best in ME and so i was shocked first about the removal till i saw there is a similar prestige class - the elven bowmaster which name is much better!
so you are right that arrows are tiny little pieces of wood not to be compared with a huge slaughter axe so the damage shouldn't be that high like that of an axe (both are 1d8 )
but arrows are critical (ok they already have the x3 multifier) so i would suggest something like the weapon master's (bowmaster==weaponmaster for bows) feat to get a better chance for critical hits considering a bowmaster is a dex-based fighter who never will get the ability for epic improved criticals and the dunedain ranger will get it though he already has more feats..
so avalyn sorry i don't want to make you growling i just want to figure out my opinion of balance and realism as a suggest for you to get the best result....i am just talking about something i am not involved and i have no idea of the final result so just notice my opinion maybe maybe it will help you otherwise ignore me please keep on doing that good work
P.S.: i always felt like my arcane archer had a lot of more problems although he is able for range atacks than most melee and other chars...:arrow: :camper:
Originally posted by Avalyn
Arrows are tiny pieces of wood, I dont think they are meant to be highly damaging
:) and bullets are just tiny pieces of metal, and they dont hurt either until travelling at the speed of sound. :camper:
Point taken. The bloody archers with acid arrows do plenty of damage even to my well armoured fighters. :skull:
Just thought yer comment was hillarious, nice one man. Cheered me right up.
You have to understand, when people ask for things to do with the PRC, as much as I might like the idea, some things just cannot be done, many of the feats (such as ki critical, weapon focus, etc...) are hardcoded and we cannot make new ones like this. Which is why we must try to find a way around it, should I discover a way to actually produce something like it, I shall inform you and commence work on creating the feats I want to see so much. Also, on the subject of the Axe Master, after some careful consideration, it will be removed and replaced with a different Dwarven Class, because if a dwarf wishes to be dangerous with an axe, the Weaponmaster class is there already.
Dwarvensmith perhaps? :)
And chill out man. As a thought, how hard would it be to treat the WM class like the CoT class. WM clones with more or less the same feats but with race or faction differences. No point. OK
Chill out? I was never angry or annoyed, I was merely informing you of what cannot be done.
informing me? *looks all innocent - ducks and hides*
When folk make suggestions - thats all they are - most of us have very limited knowledge of the workings of the bowels of the system. By the way I made a blunder with me post about the valier, which i have subsequently corrected. :(
actually i am just became sad that i wont be able to continue Cûferedir's adventures in the UTT2 cause he is an arcane archer and my only char so i planned a new one but i am not sure if i will be able to identifie in that way i do with Cûferedir Thôrhen (bowhunter eagleeye) *sighs* but it will be such a godd advertise for this community if this very special custom content will bbe ratificated...
with the cep patch out, the design stage is over (well, designs can still be done and new classes, etc...) and we are moving into implementation, stick around the IRC channel, I may need a few people to help me test :P
TheStoryteller01
31-10-2004, 10:18
Regarding their love for songs and stories the hobbits proved occassional times including the incident at the Prancing Pony and Bilbos achievements as a (song)writer pictured in Rivendell a kind of hobbit bard shouldn't be ruled out.
Thinking about how Pippin and Merry seeded distrust amongst the orcs who "kidnapped" them and made the ents take action against Sarumans keep proofed inate abilities in persuading - even under severe pressure.
They also proved on numerous occassions a remarkable abilitiy to evade blows and a strength of mind that surpasses many other races.
I cant provide any details but a mixture of a bard with very limited magic (just some *cantrips* maybe) and a rogue type relying heavily on stealth, resistances and evasive actions - not to forget his gifted tongue - could make an additional prestige class.
to be totally honest, if you want a hobbit performer, make a bard, and for a stealthy hobbit, make a rogue, its a simple as that, Im not going to make a prestige class for every occasion, like "When its Raining Warrior" and "Weeds at the end of the Garden Healer" just ones I think shall be a good addition to the MERP world. Although I always like to see input from the players, you have to understand that we cannot simply add millions of prestige classes, general classes can work fine if you look into it and actually bother to roleplay the character that way.
I agree, the game as is caters quite well for a lot of the races and any combination of class therein, ultimately it comes down to how you role play your character. I am of the opinion that new prestige classes should not exceed 10 and possibly even be restricted 5. The developers time would be far better spent creating new areas, quests etc.
aka
Frain
Only thing with above is that each member of the development team (in my understanding) is responsible for a particular thing.
So Av is doing custom classes, Longbeard the crafting (I think) and others the areas and quests. So limiting the number of classes, wouldn't increase the nimber of areas/quests being developed.
oh... didn't know that..
Still think we only need 5-10 prestige classes, i really thing it would be overcrowding the class set pointlessly to go over.
aka
Frain
TheStoryteller01
02-11-2004, 17:45
Originally posted by Avalyn
to be totally honest, if you want a hobbit performer, make a bard, and for a stealthy hobbit, make a rogue, its a simple as that, Im not going to make a prestige class for every occasion, like "When its Raining Warrior" and "Weeds at the end of the Garden Healer" just ones I think shall be a good addition to the MERP world. Although I always like to see input from the players, you have to understand that we cannot simply add millions of prestige classes, general classes can work fine if you look into it and actually bother to roleplay the character that way.
To be totally honest if someone wants to make any of these:
*Dwarven Axemaster
Dwarves superior with an axe over all others, I see much pain to enemies from these Warriors.
*Dúnedain Ranger (Previously Ranger of the North.)
Those of the Dúnedain who take up arms and fight for the free, represent all Middle Earth Dúnedain Rangers, Rangers of the North, Rangers of Ithilien, etc...
*Elven Bowmaster
The Elven Archers are without peer and will just be masters over all with a bow.
then one can do it entirely with the existing class system its as simple as that and general classes can work fine if you look into it and actually bother to roleplay the character that way.
Personally I can do without prestigeclasses for occassions like "the dwarfen axe warrior thats better than the usual dwarven warrior" or "the elf bowman thats better than any other wielding a bow" but regarding we have some hundredthousands of classes allready (since following every idea in this thread would probably push the number into millions) I agree that some variety is needed.
To be fair theres a ton of work been done in the Prestige Character pack that should go a long way towards Tolkienising the NWN game at the base level - the player character classes themselves. Ive seen some of the work already, and had some involvement in the less technical aspects of the project (mostly artwork and descriptive writing) but these classes are going to be interesting to play.
to be honest storyteller, you obviously havent read any of what ive been adding to this thread, the Axemaster is gone, and just wait until you see them.
TheStoryteller01
02-11-2004, 23:11
Really looking forward to it.
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