View Full Version : PCT - Player Support
As the first of our new threads this one is for the general interst stuff. In fact its how the PCT began. Its the things like info on the Valar, in and outs of Tolkiens language, character discussions and all that kind of thing. The sort of place you may find help with naming characters or anything like that.
On the above note I'm going to repost my list of hobbit names, but with a few more added (not that I've been pouring through the books at all).
Concerning Hobbits.
Although we don't seem to have many hobbits at the moment I thought it might be useful to post a list of genuine Tolkien hobbit names. These will be by surnam, then male forename then female forename. For completeness I've included famous names but wouldn't recommend using any of these. This is by no means complete but should help:
~Surnames~
Baggins (well duh)
Banks
Boffin
Bolger
Bracegirdle
Brandbuck
Brockhouse
Burrows
Chubb
Cotton
Floudumpling (its actually in there)
Gamgee
Goodbody
Grubb
Hayward
Hornblower
Longholes
Maggot
Mugwort
Noakes
Oldbuck
Proudfoot
Puddifoot
Sackville
Sackville-Baggins
Sandheaver
Sandyman
Smallburrow
Took
Tunnelly
Twofoot
Underhill
Whitfoot
(these surnames mainly belong to the families at Bilbo's birthday party)
~Male Forenames~
Dinodas
Bilbo
Bodo
Doderick
Dudo
Everard
Ferdibrand
Ferdinard
Ferumbas
Fillibert
Folco
Fredegar
Gorbulas
Griffo
Hugo
Ilberic
Marmadas
Milo
Minto
Mosco
Odo
Odovacar
Olo
Otho
Ponto
Porto
Posco
Reginard
Rorimac
Rufus
Sancho
Saradas
Saradoc
Seredic
Willibald
Rory
~Female Forenames~
Adelard
Angelica
Asphodel
Berilac
Celandine
Daisy
Dora
Esmeralda
Estella
Gilly
Hilda
Lobelia
Mentha
Merimac
Merimas
Moto
Myrtle
Pearl
Peony
Pervinca
Pimpernel
Poppy
Posco
Prisca
Rosamunda
Ruby
As I said by no means comprehensive but hopefully useful.
For those interested souls who have wandered in lost and confused... all the old stuff is in the Archive thread... Maybe the best of those posts could be pasted in here for ease of reference.
Not a bad idea that. Do you want to paste your Valar stuff over into this one?
~ THE VALAR - The Powers of Arda ~
In response to a number of posts, and in the interests of promoting awareness of Tolkien's mythology... Culled from various sources too numerous to mention, who undoubtedly drew directly from JRRT's Silmarillion, here for the edification and enlightenment of those who are interested, are the Powers of Arda in all their glory... I may get around to a summary of the Maiar if there is sufficient interest... Hopefully this will be useful source material for both novices and the initiated...
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~ Introduction ~
In J.R.R.Tolkien's, Middle-earth, the Valar - the Powers of Arda - who live on the Western continent of Aman, the Undying Lands.
[NOTE : The Valar are NOT gods, they more closely parallel Christian Archangels. If any being in Tolkien's world could be considered a true deity it would be Ilúvatar].
The first words of the Ainulindalë (Quenya: "The Music of the Ainur") introduce us to the name Eru: 'There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar...'. This wording can be seen as suggesting that Eru is the 'true' name of the supreme being, but in fact this doesn't seem to be the case - Eru is just Elvish for 'The One'. Ilúvatar created the World and the beings who inhabit it, and only he fully knows its fate. Ilúvatar means "Father of All" and it is he whom created the Ainur, or Holy Ones. These primordial spirits, existed with Ilúvatar, and with Him created the world through the Music of the Ainur. After the creation of Arda, many of the Ainur descended into it to guide and order its growth; of these there were fifteen more powerful than the rest. Fourteen of these great Ainur became the Valar, or Powers of Arda. The fifteenth, Melkor (later called, Morgoth Bauglir - 'Morgoth' means 'Black Enemy'; 'Bauglir' is 'The Constrainer'), turned aside from that path and became the first Dark Lord. The many lesser Ainur that accompanied the Valar into Arda are known as Maiar. They dwelt originally on the Isle of Almaren, but after its destruction they moved to Aman and founded Valinor.
~ Lords of the Valar ~
Manwë Súlimo, King of the Valar, Lord of the Winds - Manwë is dearest to Ilúvatar and uderstands most clearly his purposes. He was appointed to be, in the fullness of time, the first of all Kings: lord of the realms of Arda and ruler of all that dwell therein. In Arda his delight is in the winds and the clouds, and in all the regions of the air, from the heights to the depths, from the utmost borders of the Veil of Arda to the breezes that blow in the grass. Súlimo he is surnamed, Lord of the Breath of Arda. All swift birds, strong of wing, he loves, and they come and go at his bidding.
Ulmo, Lord of the Waters - Ulmo is the Lord of Waters. He is alone. He dwells nowhere long, but moves as he will in all the deep waters about the Earth or under the Earth. He is next in might to Manwë, and before Valinor was made he was closest to him in friendship; but thereafter he went seldom to the councils of the Valar, unless great matters were in debate. For he kept all Arda in thought, and he has no need of any resting-place. Moreover he does not love to walk upon land, and will seldom clothe himself in a body after the manner of his peers. If the Children of Eru beheld him they were filled with a great dread; for the arising of the King of the Sea was terrible, as a mounting wave that strides to the land, with dark helm foam-crested and raiment of mail shimmering from silver down into shadows of green. Th trumpets of Manwë are loud, but Ulmo's voice is deep as the deeps of the ocean which he only has seen.
Nonetheless Ulmo loves bothe Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he will come unsen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world. Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manwë.
Aulë, the Smith - Aulë has might little less than Ulmo. His lordship is over all the substances of which Arda is made. In the beginning he wrought much in fellowship with Manwë and Ulmo; and the fashioning of all lands was his labour. He is a smith and a master of all crafts, and he delights in works of skill, however small, as much as in the mighty building of old. His are the gems that lie deep in the Earth and the gold that is fair in the hand, no less than the walls of the mountains and the basins of the sea. The Noldor learned most of him, and he was ever their friend. Melkor was jealous of him, for Aulë was most like himself in thought and in powers; and there was long strife between them, in which Melkor ever marred or undid the works of Aulë, and Aulë grew weary in repairing the tumults and disorders of Melkor. Both, also, desired to make things of their own that should be new and unthought of by others, and delighted in the praise of their skill. But Aulë remained faithful to Eru and submitted all that he did to his will; and he did not envy the works of others, but sought and gave counsel. Whereas Melkor spent his spirit in envy and hate, until at last he could make nothing save in mockery of the thought of others, and all their works he destroyed if he could.
Oromë, the Golden, the Great Rider - Oromë is a mighty lord. If he is less strong than Tulkas, he is more dreadful in anger; wheras Tulkas laughs ever, in sport or in war, and even in the face of Melkor he laughed in battles before the Elves were born. Oromë loved the lands of Middle-earth, and he left them unwillingly and came last to Valinor; and often of old he passed back east over the mountains and returned with his host to the hills and the plains. He is a hunter of monsters and fell beasts, and he delights in horses and in hounds; and all trees he loves, for which reason he is called Aldaron, and by the Sindar Tauron, the Lord of Forests. Nahar is the name of his horse, white in the sun, and shining silver at night. The Valaróma is the name of his great horn, the sound of which is like the upgoing of the Sun in scarlet, or the sheer lightning cleaving the clouds. Above all the horns of his host it was heard in the woods that Yavanna brought forth in Valinor; for there Oromë would train his folk and his beasts for the pursuit of the evil creatures of Melkor.
Námo Mandos, Judge of the Dead - The Fëanturi, masters of spirits, are brethren, and they are called most often Mandos and Lórien. Yet these are rightly the names of the places of their dwelling, and their true names are Námo and Irmo.Námo the elder dwells in Mandos, which is westward in Valinor. He is the keeper of the Houses of the Dead, and the summoner of the spirits of the slain. He forgets nothing; and he knows all things that shall be, save only those that lie still in the freedom of Ilúvatar. He is the doomsman of the Valar; but he pronounces his dooms and his judgements only at the bidding of Manwë.
Irmo Lórien, Master of Dreams - Irmo the younger is the master of visions and dreams. In Lórien are his gardens in the land of the Valar, and they are the fairest of all places in the world, filled with many spirits. From the fountains of Irmo and Estë all those who dwell in Valinor draw refreshment; and often the Valar come themselves to Lórien and there find repose and easing of the burden of Arda.
Tulkas Astaldo, Champion of Valinor - Greatest in strength and deeds of prowess is Tulkas, who is sur-named Astaldo, the Valiant. He came last to Arda, to aid the Valar in the first Battles with Melkor. He delights in wrestling and in contests of strength; and he rides no steed, for he can outrn all things that go on feet, and he is tireless. His hair and beard are golden, and his flesh ruddy; his weapons are his hands. He has little head for either the past or the future, and is of no avail as a counsellor, but is a hardy friend.
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~ Queens of the Valar (Valier) ~
Varda Elentári - Varda, Lady of the Stars, who knows all the regions of Eä. Too great is her beauty to be declared in the words of Men or of Elves; for the light of Ilúvatar lives still in her face. In light is her power and her joy. Out of the deeps of Eä she came to the aid of Manwë; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her, and feared her more than all others whom Eru made.
Yavanna Kementári - The spouse of Aulë is Yavanna, the Giver of Fruits. She is the lover of all things that grow in the earth, and all their countless forms she holds in her mind, from the trees like towers in forests long ago to the moss upon stones or the small and secret things in the mould. In reverence Yavanna is next to Varda among the Queens of the Valar. In the form of a woman she is tall, and robed in green; but at times she takes other shapes. Some there are who have seen her standing like a tree under heaven, crowned with the Sun; and form all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth, and it grew green with corn; but the roots of the tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwë spoke in its leaves. Kementári, Queen of the Earth, she is surnamed in the Eldarin tounge.
Estë, the Gentle - Estë the gentle, healer of hurts and weariness, is Irmo's spouse. Grey is her rainment; and rest is her gift. She walks not by day, but sleeps upon an island in the tree-shadowed lake of Lórellin.
Nienna, Lady of Mercy - Mightier than Estë is Nienna, sister of the Fëanturi; she dwells alone. She is acquainted with grief, and mourns for every wound that Arda has suffered in the marring of Melkor. So great was her sorrow, as the Music unfolded, that her song turned to lamentation long before its end, and the sound of mourning was woven into the themes of the World before it began. But she does not weep for herself; and those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope. Her halls are west of West, upon the borders of the world; and she comes seldom to the city of Valimar where all is glad. She goes rather to the halls of Mandos, which are near to her own; and all those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom. The windows of her house look outward from the walls of the world.
Vairë, the Weaver - She who weaves all things that have ever been in Time into her storied webs, and the halls of Mandos that ever widen as the ages pass are clothed with them. She is the spouse of Námo.
Vána, the Ever-young - The spouse of Oromë is Vána, the Ever-young; she is the younger sister of Yavanna. All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and the birds sing at her coming.
Nessa - The spouse of Tulkas is Nessa, the sister of Oromë, and she also is lithe and fleetfooted. Deer she loves, and they follow her train whenever she goes in the wild; but she can outrun them, swift as an arrow with the wind in her hair. In dancing she delights, and she dances in Valimar on lawns of never-fading green.
(These are the names of the Valar as they were known to the Eldar. In Middle-earth, they were known by other names of Sindarin origin; for example they called Varda, "Elbereth". Men knew them by many other names.)
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Here we go again, this time Rhorrim names, again not comprehensive, but hopefully useful:
Aldor
Baldor
Brego
Déor
Déorwine
Dernhelm
Dúnhere
Elfhelm
Éomer
Éomund
Eorl
Éothain
Éowin
Erkenbrand
Fastred
Fengel
Folca
Folcred
Folcwine
Fram
Fréa
Fréalaf
Fréawine
Frumgar
Gamling
Gárulf
Goldwine
Gram
Gríma
Grimbold
Guthláf
Hador
Haleth
Háma
Harding
Helm
Herefara
Herubrand
Horn
Léod
Léofa
Marhath
Théoden
Théodred
Thengel
Walda
Wulf
Almost all of these names can be found in the epic 'Beowulf' so if you're searching for a Rohirrim name and can lay your hands on a copy its a good source for their names (unfortunately I can't find mine at the moment otherwise I'd put some more names here.)
A handy link to MERP resources and maps. Be warned the site has poor bandwidth but theres a lot of stuff. Some even I aint seen before. Like I say SLOW and some of the .PDFs are LARGE, the .JPG maps are a good bet though. :cool:
http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/merp/downloads/downloads.shtml
For those interested in Tolkien based Languages and Linguistics -
http://www.elvish.org/resources.html#PrimaryBooks_anchor
And I think this link has been posted before but Im posting it here - Another excellent site -
http://www.lotrplaza.com/default.asp
Lets not forget the old standby - The ever useful Encyclopaedia of Arda without which the PCT would be impoverished and starving
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
This one is by a dutch fan I think - lot of interesting LOTR facts and stuff here -
http://www.annalsofarda.dk/Index.htm
Galdor - why not post that link again mate... here's as good a place as any :)
Galdor_Niphredil
14-10-2004, 18:31
This might be useful when designing your character-
An all-in-one Tolkien themed name generator with results in:
1)Elven (male and female)
2)Hobbit (male and female)
3)Dwarven
4)Orcish
5)Adunaic (the language of the men of Numenor)
Although these are completely made up and not translations, I think the results you get are pretty good :)
http://www.barrowdowns.com/middleearthname.php
Galdor_Niphredil
17-10-2004, 11:38
For all you would-be Uruk-hai and Trolls here's a link to a site covering the language of the Black Speech.
http://www.thelandofshadow.com/mordorgate/darkdownloads/blackspeech/speech3.htm
The site has also got a blackspeech name generator that claims to be give pretty acurate results ! :dork:
http://www.thelandofshadow.com/mordorgate/darkdownloads/blackspeech/orcname.htm
Land of Shadow... what a nice site :)
http://www.deadgentlemen.com/gamers/media.html
FOR GODS SAKE - DOWNLOAD THIS 9.5mb TRAILER - its brilliant
theres a smaller, low bandwidth version too for all you dial up modem weirdos :)
~ SPECIAL OFFER ~
If anyone on here wants a personal Avatar Icon doing of their character (or anything personal that they feel is appropriate) and they dont know anything about image manipulation, feel free to send me the screen capture and Ill do a couple for ya.
No charge - all part of the service ladies n gents :)
Want them on yout email or what? If so, the adress?
send them on IRC or send me a blank email letting me know you are interested. Obviously im not fond of the idea of posting my email address :). I'll send you a PM with it on now OK.
Make sure your screen name or the character name is on the screenshot so I know who to send them back to.
Fasin, delete some of your PM's mate, I can't send you any.
Originally posted by ghost81
On the above note I'm going to repost my list of hobbit names, but with a few more added (not that I've been pouring through the books at all).
Concerning Hobbits.
~Surnames~
Baggins (well duh)
Banks
Boffin
Bolger
Bracegirdle
Brandbuck
Brockhouse
Burrows
Chubb
Cotton
Floudumpling (its actually in there)
Gamgee
Goodbody
Grubb
Hayward
Hornblower
Longholes
Maggot
Mugwort
Noakes
Oldbuck
Proudfoot
Puddifoot
Sackville
Sackville-Baggins
Sandheaver
Sandyman
Smallburrow
Took
Tunnelly
Twofoot
Underhill
Whitfoot
(these surnames mainly belong to the families at Bilbo's birthday party)
HEY... you missed out the Hairylobes.. Grandpa Hairylobe WAS at the party... just coz he aint mentioned in the book doesnt mean he doesn't exist you know!!!!!:frown:
My apologies good sir, although I did say it was by no means a complete list. But it was most remiss of me to forget the esteemed Hairylobes. ;)
which is of course pronounced "hee-ree-loobz"
Ok.... this has probably been asked many a time before but where DID they originaly come from? After all the first dwarves were all male?:naughty:
One of the first Male Dwarves got very drunk, humped a rock in beer-fueled lust and the rock gave birth to a fully bearded bouncing baby girl-dwarf some time later....
.....Or something ;)
Originally posted by WreckSC
and the rock gave birth to a fully bearded bouncing baby girl-dwarf some time later....
sounds familiar.....
Bathed in the energies of Earth and Heaven, quickened by the light of Sun and Moon, the stone became fertile, and at last cracked open to release its young.
From this stone egg emerged a full-grown monkey. As it gazed about and above, golden light shot from its eyes to the farthest reaches of Heaven and Earth.
:O
I never could get that cloud summoning thing right.....
Still be interested in a genuine answer to the original question though
In the creation tales of the dwarves only Durin was said to have 'lain alone'. ie placed in slumber by Aule all on his lonesome. This either implies that all the other 6 dwarf fathers were in pairs or that each had a female companion. Personally seeing as there are 7 dwarf clans, and there are most assuredly, dwarf women (take it from Veld hes been married), then the latter makes the most sense.
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It is told in The Silmarillion that the Vala Aulë created the Dwarves because he was impatient for the arising of the Children of Ilúvatar (Elves and Men). He created seven Dwarves, and was teaching them the language he had devised for them (Khuzdul) when Ilúvatar confronted him. Aulë offered his creations to Ilúvatar, who accepted them and gave them life.
However, the Fathers of the Dwarves had to wait until the Elves first arrived (pah), and Aulë laid them to rest in various places in Middle-earth. The eldest of all, Durin, "lay alone" at Mount Gundabad in the north of the Misty Mountains. He later founded the line of the Longbeards (or Sigin-tarâg in Khuzdul), the Dwarves which were most friendly to the Elves and Men. His city was Khazad-dûm.
Two others were laid to rest near Mount Dolmed in the Ered Luin or Blue Mountains, and they founded the lines of the Broadbeams and the Firebeards who later lived in Nogrod and Belegost.
The other four Fathers of Dwarves were laid to rest in the far east, two of them at the northern end of the Orocarni, and the other two near the southern end of the range. These founded the lines of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and Blacklocks and Stonefoots. No Dwarves of these lines appear in the tales.
__________________________________________________
It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people. They seldom walk abroad except at great need, They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart. This has given rise to the foolish opinion among Men that there are no dwarf-women, and that the Dwarves 'grow out of stone'.
It is because of the fewness of women among them that the kind of the Dwarves increases slowly, and is in peril when they have no secure dwellings. For Dwarves take only one wife or husband each in their lives, and are jealous, as in all matters of their rights. The number of dwarf-men that marry is actually less than one-third. For not all the women take husbands: some desire none; some desire one that they cannot get, and so will have no other. As for the men, very many also do not desire marriage, being engrossed in their crafts.
And being engrossed in their Ale as well ;)
*Lolinus knocks back his ale in one gulp, and stands up* 'Right lads what we fightin' next?'
Thanks Fasin.... I'll aah accept your interpretation of events;)
*begins to sign a song after reading an earlier post*
Born from an egg on a mountain top...
Thought it might be time to fire this thread up again and bring it to people's notice. If there's somthing you want to know/want help with ask here.
It can be anything Tolkien related - be it Name ideas, info about Valar/Races whatever, we'll answer qas best we can.
This thread is about Tolkien information, not NWN information, please post NWN questions elsewhere.
Prophet7
22-02-2005, 05:25
For anyone who is interested in Elvish here are two sites.
http://www.elendor.net/translator.php
http://members.cox.net/taramiluiel/sindarin_phrases.htm
As I've travelled recently I've seen that there seems to be some confusion about Dragons in Tolkien. Some players seem to view them as Tolkien intended, others as misunderstood noble beasts, and yet others in the DnD view of good and bad Dragons. For the sake of my sanity here's some information on Dragons in tolkien drawn from various Tolkien sources.
The "Quenta Silmarillion' tells how, in the First Age of the Sun, Morgoth the dark enemy hid himself in the pits of Angband and wrought his masterpieces of evil. The dark jewels of Morgoth's genius were the great worms called Dragons. These were the embodimentof the Chief evils of Men, Elves and Dwarves, and so were great in their destructions of those races.
So there we have the Dragons were evil in Tolkien, created by the ultimate evil - Morgoth himself. One interesting description calls them 'magnificent but evil', however every source going undoubtably says that the Dragons of Tolkien were evil.
(Hopefully I can now retain what little sanity I have left).
Hmm. I'm thinking of creating an Elf character.
Could someone remind me of the basics of being an elf? In particular, what sub-races are there? Important character traits? Which are the arrogant ones - the Noldor? How old would an elf currently walking middle-earth be?
Oh, and while we're on the subject of interesting links... http://www.ansereg.com/what_tolkien_officially_said_abo.htm is quite interesting. :)
First off a disclaimer, this aint a be all and end all guide to elves, just a few bits and peices to help.
Elves were the firstborn, the Elder children of Iluvatar. Early in the first age the Elves were divided into two groups - The Eldar (who traveeled to Aman at the summoning of the Valar) and the Avari (who refused the summons and became the lesser Silvan Elves).
The Eldar:-
Made up of the three Kindreds of the Elves -
Vanyar - The first and smallest Kindred of the Eldar, they were the first to answer the summons to Aman, and there they remained. None returned to Arda.
Noldor - second kindred to travel to Aman, they have a great thirst for knowledge that meant they travelled all of Aman seeking knowlege. It was the Noldor who returned to Middle Earth in pursuit of the Simarils, and the Noldor who were exiled by the Valar for shedding blood in the kinslaying. After the first age a few Noldor remained in middle earth - Noldor include Galadriel and Gil-Galad.
Teleri - The third of the elven kindreds and last to travel to Aman. They had a great love of the sea. Some remained in Beleriand of old - these became the Sindar, the Nandor and the Laiquendi.
The Avari -
The unwilling/refusers - those that refused to go to Aman, later became known as the Silvan elves.
So that still leaves us Sindar, Nandor,Laiquendi and Silvan elves to look at (and also a quick look at Moriquendi - and what it means).
Sindar - Those of the Teleri who never travelled to Aman, and therefore never saw the light of the two trees. Although 'only' Moriquendi, they achieved great wisdom - their leader was Cirdan. They were extrememly gifted in music and their voices were very fair. Also called grey-elves and 'the Elves of Twilight'.
Nandor - Elves of the Teleri who never completed the great journey due to fear of the Misty Mountains. They lived through the Vales of Anduin, the coasts west of Ethir Anduin and Eriador. A woodland people who loved running water, those of Eriador suffered greatly at the hands of the servants of Morgoth.
Laiquendi - also called Green elves. Again of the Teleri who remained behind, they were loved by Ulmo (who would have thought he had it in him). They wore green, especially in spring and summer, and were very fond of singing. They're favoured weapon was the bow. They lived in secret through the First Age.
Silvan Elves - the tribes of the elves who were not of the Eldar, but were more numerous. They remained in Middle Earth when the Eldar travelled to Aman in the first age. They tend to dwell in woodlands, and as such are known as Wood-elves and Woodland Elves.
Moriquendi - term used by the Eldar to describe those elves who never saw the light of the two trees. Which would be the Silvan, Sindar, Nandor and Laquendi elves. Literal translation is Dark Elves.
So there we have it lots of different kinds of elf. Things to consider are the fact that most elves in Middle Earth will be either Sindar or Silvan as these were the most populous groups. Although some Noldor still live in Middle Earth.
Here's a quick run-through of some well known Elves and what kindred they come from:
Galadriel - Noldor
Celeborn - Sindar
Cirdan - Sindar
Thranduil - Sindar
Legolas - Sindar
Glorfindel - Noldor
Elrond (okay he's half-elven, but chose to be immortal) - dwelled with the Noldor so would probably fall under this category if any.
Arwen - Noldor.
A quick look at the major homes of the Elves, and which elves dwelled there:
Lothlorien - Most of its inhabitants were Silvan elves, however Sindarin was the spoken language of Lorien.
Rivendell - Most of the Elves of Rivendell were Noldor.
Woodland Realm - mainly Sindar.
As to the ages of Elves thats tricky - very old would be a good answer. Legolas isn't given an age, but his father Thranduil was around in the First Age, and is still going strong during the War of the Ring. So any age you want would probably work - but not too young I'd guess.
that's absolutely brilliant, exactly the type of thing I was looking for. Thanks, ghost81! :)
I suppose I should have included the Grey Havens (Mithlond) in the list of Ef-Homes. These would have been Sindar on the whole.
can't find those dwarven quotes no more. all iknow is: http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/khuzdul.htm
somebody knows more?
Dwarven is a lot trickier as no-one really speaks it much. Everything out there is put together from the small excerpts we do see in Tolkien's work - mainly place names and some writings (the Tomb of Balin for example).
The only spoken dwarvish in the whole of the LOTR trilogy is by Gimli at the Battle of Helm Deep:
'Barak Khazad! Khazad Ai Menu!' which translates as 'Axes of the Dwarves! The dwarves are upon you!'.
fasin had some more quotes like "may mahla bless you". haven't seen fasin in a while though...
A question if I may my fellow learned Tolkienophiles...
In the book it is eluded to, that in the north of Middle Earth elves and dwarves fight the forces of Sauron's armies. Is there any literature pertaining to this?
Would be interested to read if such does exist.
that indeed seems very interesting! where did you read this? in the lotr?
Hmm, I'll have to read up on things but I do know that both Dain and Brand (the grandsom of Bard) died fighting the forces of Sauron in 'The Battle of the Dale' - where original references to this are I'm not sur, but all the guides etc. talk of them both dying at this battle.
okies some more info already with references no less:
Battle of the Dale - Battle of the War of the Ring, fought March 15-17, Third Age 3019 (The battle of the Pellenor fields was on March 15th of the same year to put this date into context) in which the Men of Dale, aided by the Dwarves of Erebor, were defeated by Easterling allies of Sauron. Both King Brand and King Dain II were slain and the remanants of their armies were besieged in Erebor.
Sources for this are apparently
A) Page 1130 of both the One Volume Unwin Paberback edition (pub 1968) and the deluxe India Paper edition of the same year.
B) Page 375 Hardback Edition of Return of the King (First Ed 1955, 2nd Ed 1966) & same page of Methuen Paperback of the above, published in 1971, now out of print.
C) Page 471 Return of The King, Unwin 3 Volume Paperback Edition, 1st published 1979
and
D) Page 342 Return of The King, Unwin 3 Volume Paperback Edition, Old Size, First Published 1974.
Now these references don't refer to any of my Editions but I will have a quick look to see what I can find.
Appendix A of The Return of the King (in The Durin's Folk bit) makes some reference to these events.
'So it was that when war came at last the main assualt was turned southwards; yet even so with his far-stretched right hand Sauron might have done great evil in the North, if King Dain and King Brand had not stood in his path. Even as Gandalf said afterwards to Frodo and Gimli, when they dwelt together for a time in Minas Tirith. Not long before had news come to Gondor of events far away.
'I grieved at the fall of Thorin,' said Gandalf; 'and now we hear that Dain has fallen, fighting in Dale again. I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still weild his axe as mightily as they say that he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the Gate of Erebor until the darkness fell.
'Yet things may have gone far otherwise and far worse. When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the battles in Dale and the Valour of Durin's folk. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador, night in Rivendell. There might be no queen in Gondor. We might now hope to return from victory here only to ruin and ash. But that has been averted - because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring in Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle Earth.'
The Return of the King, Appendix A, III Durin's Folk (p445, Harper Collins, 3 Volume Paperback, 2002).
This is all I can find on the subject in Tolkiens own writings.
Fasin and I were having a conversation the other day about how lots of the characetrs in LOTR seemed to be related. Other than the obvious Hobbit cousins its more than you may think. This interested me enough to look into it a little further and this is what I discovered.
Elrond is father to Arwen (obviously).
Galadriel is mother of Elrond's wife.
This means that Galadriel is mother-in-law to Elrond and Grandmother to Arwen.
Now's where it gets odd/scary.
Elrond had a brother called Elros, who was born 58 years before tyhe end of the first age (Elrond is the elder brother so damn old). At the end of the first age he chose the gift of men, but waws granted a life of 500 years. Elros led the remanant of the Edain to Numenor and was appointed the King of the Dunedain by the Valar. His heirs were the kings of Numenor, Arnor and Gondor.
This means he's Aragorn's Great great etc grandfather, which makes Elrond Aragorn's Uncle (with greats) which makes Arwen Aragorn's cousin (x number of times removed) so as is common with royalty - Aragorn married his cousin.
Hey.. gota keep it all in the family you know!!!:D
thank's for that inquiry!
aragorn and arwen are not only cousins, in both their veins flows the blood of maia ( melian of doriath is the grand-grand-grandmother of elrond and elros) elves (elwe thingol of doriath) and men (beren is the grand-grandfather of elrond and elors, aerendil is their father). quite a mixture for middle-earth standards!
Arwen is the only one that i figured out that is the descendant of all three elven tribes (eldar) the men tribes and even from maia (melian)
so dont wonder why elrond is sad to loose his daughter when she married aragorn :)
i only saw this link posted from dsan but it isnt only for khuzdul but for nearly everything i might be useful:
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/index.html
Prophet7
06-03-2005, 23:43
Here is a long list of english names translated into Sindarin. I hope this helps someone in making a character. Also is a description from the encyclopedia of Arda about the differences between Sindarin and Quenya and their uses in Middle Earth.
Sindarin: The language of the Grey-elves of Beleriand and most commonly used of the Elf-tongues in Middle-earth. When the Noldor returned to Middle-earth at the beginning of the First Age, Thingol decreed that their tongue, Quenya, was not to be spoken in his realms. So the language of his people, Sindarin, came to dominate. Quenya, though, was still used as a language of ceremony and poetry.
Sindarin shared common roots with Quenya, and the two languages had many similar words. Sindarin was said to be more changeful than the older tongue, however, and there were a number of regional 'dialects' of the tongue. The Sindarin spoken in Doriath was said to be the highest and most noble form of the language.
Quenya: The tongue of the High Elves in Valinor, the first to be recorded in writing. It was never widely used in Middle-earth except among the Noldor; the related Eldarin language, Sindarin, was more commonly spoken.
By the Third Age, Quenya had become, in Middle-earth, a language used only on formal or state occasions by the Elves and the descendants of the Númenóreans.
MALE NAMES
Aaron
High mountain, exalted
Orodor, Orodorion, Orodon, Arthion, Arthon, Hallion, Hallon
Abraham
Father of many
Pinadar, Adarbin
Adam
Man
Adan, Benn, Dîr
Alan
Little rock, handsome
Gondithen, Banon, Banion
Alexander
Defending men
Berioledain, Edainveriol
Andrew
Of a man
Adanion, Bennion, Dirion
Anthony
flower
Loth, Lothion, Lothon
Austin
Great, venerable
Beleg, Belegon, Daer, Daeron, Brunon, Brûn, Iauron
Benjamin
Son of the south/right hand
Haradion, Forgamion
Brandon
Prince
Caun, Cund, Ernil
Charles
Man
Adan, Benn, Dîr
Christian
Christian, believes in God
Eruvronwe
Christopher
Bear/carry Christ
Coleru, Erugolon
Connor
Dog-lover, wolf-lover
Huvellon, Huveldir, Garavellon, Garaveldir, Húheron
Daniel
God is my judge
Eruvadhoren
David
Beloved
Melethron
Dean
Valley
Imlad, Imladion, Imladon, Ladion, Ladon, Nanion, Nanon
Dominic
Of the lord
Erúion
Donald
Ruler of the world
Caunardh, Conardhon, Aranardh, Aranardhon
Duncan
Brown warrior
Baramaethor, Maethorvaran
Dylan
Sea
Aear, Aearon
Edward
Blessed guard
Tirithalui, Galuidirith
Eli
Ascension
Eriad, Eriadon
Elijah
My God
Erunín
Eric
Ever ruler
Caunuir, Uigon
Ethan
Solid, enduring
Bronadui, Bronaduion
Gabriel Man of God
Erunír, Eruvenn
Jack
God is gracious/kind
Eruvilui, Eruviluion
Jason
To heal
Nestadron, Nestadon, Nestadion, Nestador, Nestadir
Jeffrey Peace of God
Sídheru
John
God is gracious/giving/kind
Eruvilui, Eruviluion
Jonathan
God has given
Auneru, Oneneru
Jordan
Descend, flow down
Rimmadad, Dadhiria
Joshua
God is salvation
Edraitheru
Justin
Just
Fael, Faelion, Faelon, Faelor, Faelir
Kevin
Handsome child
Bainion, Henvain
Kyle
Tree of life
Cuilornion, Cuilornon, Cuilornor, Cuilornir
Luke
From Lucania
Luganion, Luganon
Mark
Man of war
Authadan, Adanoth
Matthew
Gift of God
Anteru
Maximilian
Greatest
Daerwain, Darwain, Belegwain
Maxwell
Stream of Maccus
Nemagusion, Nemaguson, Nemagus
Michael
Who is like God?
Eruthiadon, Eruthiador
Miles
Soldier
Maethor, Authír, Dagron
Nicholas
Victory of the people
Turwaith
Noah
Rest, comfort
Îdh, Idhion, Idhon
Orlando
Famous land
Doristannen
Patrick
Nobleman
Aradan, Arabenn, Aradir, Arthadan
Richard
Brave power
Balanornen, Tuornen, Bellasornen, Balangonen, Tugonen, Bellagonen
Robert
Bright fame
Celairistannen
Ryan
Little king
Araneg
Samuel
Name of God, God has heard
Enetheru, Erulastannen
Seth
Placed, appointed
Estannen
Steven
Crown
Ríon, Ríor, Rínion, Rínon, Rínor, Rínir
Thomas
Twin
Gwanunig
Timothy Honoring God
Aglaraneru, Aglareru, Eruegleriol
Trevor
Big village
Gobeldor, Gobeldauron,
Tyler
Tiler of roofs
Tobir, Tobor, Tobon
William
Will/desire + protection
Innaveriadon, Innaveriador
Zachary
God remembers
Erurén
FEMALE NAMES
Abigail
My father is joy
Adarenell, Adarenlas
Alana
Little rock, beautiful
Gonditheniel, Gondegiel, Bainiel, Bainwen
Alexandra
Defending men
Berioledain, Edainveriol
Alyssa, Alice
Noble one
Ariel, Arwen, Arphen, Branniel, Branwen, Rodwen
Amy Beloved
Melliel, Melwen, Muiniel, Muinwen
Angela
Heavenly creature/Messenger
Meneliel, Menelwen, Siniathiel, Siniathwen
Anna
Grace, favor
Bainiel, Bainwen, Banethiel
Arianna Silver, or Most holy
Celebiel, Celebwen, Aerwainiel/Arwaniel
Ashley
Ash tree clearing
Lanlithorn
Brianna
Noble, hill, strong
Ariel, Arwen, Arphen, Rodwen, Branniel, Branwen, Amoniel, Belliel, Belwen
Brooke
Lives near a river
Margeloniel, Marduiniel, Marneniel, Marhiriel
Caroline
Woman
Bess, Dess, Adaneth, Dî, Elleth
Casey Vigilant
Tiruiel, Tiruiwen
Christina
Christian, believes in God
Eruvronwe
Claire, Clare
Clear, bright, famous
Limiel, Limwen, Celairiel, Celairwen, Istanneniel
Daisy
A daisy
Eirien
Danielle
God is my judge
Eruvadhoren
Dawn
Dawn
Minuial, Minuialwen
Destiny
Destiny, fate
Manadhiel, Manadhwen, Amarthiel, Amarthwen
Diana, Diane
Heavenly, divine
Meneleniel, Menelenwen, Aeriel, Aerwen
Donna
Lady
Brennil, Hiril
Elizabeth
God is my oath
Eruwesten, Eruwesteniel, Eruwaedhen
Emma Whole, universal
Paniel, Panwen
Erica Ever-ruler
Uidor, Uidoriel, Uidorwen
Erin
Ireland
Calennor
Faith
Faith
Bronwe
Gabrielle
Strong woman of God
Eruvelliel, Eruvelwen, Eruvelleth
Georgette Farmer
Mudiel, Galiel, Galawen, Galil
Grace
Grace
Bainiel, Bainwen, Banethiel
Hannah
Favor, grace
Bainiel, Bainwen, Banethiel
Irene, Erin Peace
Sîdh, Sidhiel, Sidhwen
Isabel
God is my oath
Eruwesten, Eruwesteniel, Eruwaedhen
Jennifer
Fair/white + smooth
Pathlaniel, Pathlanwen, Bainbathiel, Bainbathwen
Jessica
God beholds
Erugenel
Jordan
Descend, flow down
Rimmadad, Dadhiria
June
The month June
Nórui, Nóruiel, Nóruiwen
Katherine
far-off
Haeroniel, Haeronwen, Palaniel, Palanwen
Kayla
Slender daughter
Fimiell, Lhinniell, Ninniell
Kelsey
Ship island, ship victory
Cirdol, Cirdoliel, Cirdolwen, Cirdur, Cirduriel, Cirdurwen
Laura
Laurel
Orniel, Ornwen, Galadhiel, Galadhwen
Lauren
Of Laurentum
Laurenniel
Leah
Weary
Penorven, Penorveniel
Leslie
Holly garden, garden by pool
Sanneregdos, Sannael, Sannaeliel, Sannaelwen, Saneniel
Lynn
Lake
Neniel, Nenwen, Ael, Aeliel, Aelwen, Lówen, Rimiel, Rimwen
Maria, Mary
Beloved, love
Melliel, Melwen, Meleth, Melethiel, Melethwen, Mîl, Miliel, Milwen
May
The month May
Lothron, Lothroniel, Lothronwen
Melissa Bee
Glídan, Glídaniel, Glídanwen
Michelle
Who is like God?
Eruthiadiel, Eruthiadwen
Morgan
Sea circle
Aearechor, Echoraear, Aearinn, Rinnaear
Nicole
Victory of the people
Turwaith, Turwaithiel
Rebecca
A snare, a trap
Gadiel, Gadwen
Rose
A rose
Meril
Samantha
Name of God, God has heard
Enetheru, Erulastannen
Sarah
Princess
Rîn, Rían
Savannah
Large grassy plain
Ladiel, Ladwen, Talathiel, Talathwen, Naniel, Nanwen, Parthiel
Sierra
Mountain range
Orodrimiel, Orodrimwen
Sophie/Sophia Wisdom
Saelas, Saeliel, Saelwen
Stacey Resurrection, "Up-rises, uprising"
Ameriol, Ameria
Stephanie
Crown
Ríel, Rían, Ríwen, Ríniel, Rínwen, Rîn
Taylor
Tailor, cutter of cloth
Hammarithril
Valerie
To be strong
Belliel, Belwen, Bellasiel, Bellaswen
DM_Olórin
15-03-2005, 23:53
well done mate... hopefully people will use the old world names on the last line of each example... good stuff :)
Prophet7
17-03-2005, 21:48
One would hope people could figure that out Olorin and thanks for the praise...And just in case the first is the english name, then the meaning of the name, and then possible Sindarin translations. If you wish a name translated from a word and not a name, this is a site that translates from english into four different elf languages...
http://www.elendor.net/translator.php
be careful with this translator :)
my characters wouldnt be known as Cúrandir or Cûferedir but as Kuuurhandir or Kuuuferedir
*Cúrandir shudders*
better not write the pronunciation :P
I dont know if you can trust this source http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/sindar/downloads.html in all terms.
better make sure there is a second similar source (like Cú and Kuuu is similar but not the same:))
DM_Olórin
23-03-2005, 21:52
As far as I know in Tolkiens elvish tongues, the "K" sound was always rendered with the letter "C"
Celeborn, Galadriel's fella was pronounced "Keleborn". I believe it was always the case, no elvish name beginning with "C" had the soft "S" sound.
Prophet7
01-04-2005, 18:39
After looking farther into that site I found that its not a Tolkien reference site, but a site for a online text-based RPG so I think you are right Morez. But the site with Sindarin Phrases seems pretty good, and that is where I got the names from.
thromnombulax
01-04-2005, 19:04
Aye Olorin .. even if its a silent "C" , like in "Horse" :) :naughty: :rolling:
@olorin:
yes i know that 'C' never is 'S' but always 'K', so it is the same in my language :) (it's metioned at eh end of the silmarillion e.g.)
i just would try to aviod written names above the char which are wrritten like the pronunciation...
A quick guide to alignments:
Lawful Good (Crusader) - Loyal, hard-working members of the community, or truthful and honourable fighters against evil who hate to see bad go unpunished. They believe that having an ordered society is the best way to further the common good. Example: King Arthur.
Neutral Good (Benefactor) - They believe that a balance somewhere between total order and total chaos is best, and would generally concentrate on doing the morally right thing without worrying about whether it was good or bad for 'society'. Example: Mother Theresa.
Chaotic Good (Rebel) - Strong believers in freedom who like to make their own way and hate people who bully other people and try to push them around. They will often have a strong moral code which may not agree with the law. Example: Robin Hood.
Lawful Neutral (Judge) - They are disciplined and believe that adhering to and enforcing laws and traditions is the most important thing. They will not generally go out of their way to help others but will intervene to stop crime. Example: Asimovian robots.
True Neutral (Undecided or Balanced) - This can mean either of two things, depending on whether the character is actively or passively neutral. Active neutrals (the Balanced type) are very rare. They are philosophically committed to maintaining the Balance, and will tend to join every fight on the losing side. Passive neutrals (the Undecided type) are somewhere in the middle on both the Good-Evil and Law-Chaos axes. The passive neutral alignment can also apply to creatures with no moral sense such as animals. Example: Zen masters (Balanced), animals (Undecided).
Chaotic Neutral (Free Spirit) - A strange and very rare alignment. Chaotic neutral characters are very unpredictable individualists, being governed by whatever they feel like doing at the moment. Example: Calvin (from Calvin and Hobbes).
Lawful Evil (Dominator) - They respect the law, but have no concern for others, and tend to exploit the law to rise to power. Often they will engage in merciless, organised, planned killing. Example: A Dictator.
Neutral Evil (Malefactor) - A purely selfish type, with no concern for other people or the law, but without as much lust for killing as Chaotic Evil characters. Example: Case (from Neuromancer by William Gibson).
Chaotic Evil (Destroyer) - The most dangerous characters of all, they will rove around killing and destroying for the sheer joy of it. Example: orcs.
Argon Balros
08-04-2005, 20:57
thanks lorien
but theres a few of your examples that i've not heard off,
Example: Asimovian robots.
Example: Calvin (from Calvin and Hobbes).
Example: Case (from Neuromancer by William Gibson).
thromnombulax
08-04-2005, 21:02
Asimovs robots had 3 laws hard-wired inta em;
1 A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2 A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3 A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
dunno the other two
I can clarify the Asimovian Robots. Not the others.. ;)
In quite a few of Isaac Asimov's novels, robots play a major role. His view of robots is as highly advanced humanoid machines with "positronic brains", built to serve the humans. All robots are bound by the Three Laws of Robotics:
1. A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey an order given by a human being, except when such an order would conflict with the first law.
3. A robot must protect its own existance, except where such protection would contradict the first or second laws.
Robots are built so that they cannot possibly violate these laws -- they are "hard-wired" into their brains. Quite a lot of Asimov's stories explore conflicts that can arise from blindly following the laws -- what if any course of action a robot could take would lead to harm to human beings? What if ordered to harm a human being and additional factors complicate the situation? Early robots often develop critical brain malfunctions when faced with a situation that can't be cleanly resolved using the three laws.
So, the example is of someone blindly and absolutely following a set of laws, I guess. :)
I would like to hear about the others though...
Edit: Hah, beat me to it, but at least I provided more detail :P
You don't know Calvin and Hobbes? Shame on you.
Calvin and Hobbes is a cartoon that used to appear in the Express in the UK. Calvin was a kid and Hobbes was his toy tiger (whom he conversed with at great length). Basically Calvin used to get himself into trouble left right and centre through his own fantasy world. What the description is saying is that the persons actions make total sense to themselves, but very little to anyone else.
As for the other - hey I cut ans pasted this from elsewhere - and though I have read Gibson I've never read the Neuromance so I cannot comment. However in an attempt to make things clearer - well read the description of Neutral Evil - it says it all - the example is just for those in the know.
Argon Balros
09-04-2005, 03:53
well i watched irobot but i was'nt sure if that was what you meant by the example.
and thanks for the clarification.
Argon Balros
09-04-2005, 03:54
i don't mean to be thick it just kinda comes naturaly :)
thromnombulax
09-04-2005, 10:15
That Calvin sounds the text-book definition of a psychopath. I like him already ;)
Yeah - he lived in his own world - I remember one time when he shot his mum with a watergun because in his mind she was an evil alien from another planet, or the time he lost a water fight to his cuddly tiger but my favourite must have been the time he made snowmen - but all dying in various grisly ways.
thromnombulax
09-04-2005, 13:49
*looks a bit worried* :)
I want to get the PCT revived.
If we want to add more to the game and personalise things more, we are going to need players actively thinking things up and to some extent, making a few odds and ends.
The PCT now has an IRC channel #MERPPRC
Re - Healing Kits
I was thinking that healing kits are a bit odd. How is it that a +10 kit is better than a +1? Are the bandages cleaner or something? This to me just does not make sense. So I was thinking about an idea.
How about, as thieves craft traps, can the person with ranks in 'heal' craft bigger and better bandages. This would mean that you could buy a base bandage for example a +1, and then they sit down and add perhaps some herbs to the bandage as they craft it. Again depending upon the skill depends upon the herb and so the better the bonus. As you get different levels of trap.
This may take time, but if you can have them preprepared it should not make much difference. And it would also in my opinion make things slightly more reasonable.
Argon Balros
12-05-2005, 12:08
yeah and make them have no value to merchants so it will be yet another cool thing to buy at the sunday market :)
Just another random thought upon the healing kits. Some effects such as blindness, dazed, confusion, fear, stat and level drain etc., could perhaps also be cured by specifically created healing kits. It would make the world less magic orientated as herbs are more of a physical thing.
With many new players appearing on the server again I thought it may be time to give this thread a little bump to bring it to people attention again.
Anyone can add to this thread of course, but bear in mind we are going for Tolkien accuracy here, to help support pplayers who aren't a walking Tolkien encyclopedia (apparently DM_Lorien is one, but there you go).
If there somthing you'd like to know please do ask. Sometimes the information here is also to update the player manual.
Just so you know my next project for this thread will be huamn sub-races and some information about them.
DM_Gwaihir
09-05-2006, 19:42
*bumps again particularly for the first pages*
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