Disapearing classes and feats in UTT2 [Archive]

TheStoryteller01

26-10-2004, 23:16

I voted yes - but I am not that much concerned about true casters, its more of the hybrids that inflate magic imo

Practically every rogue or monk is well advised to throw some levels of magic into his character and there are some race/class combinations that dont even give a penalty.

One other thing - I play a ranger/scout and took the skill that allowes a rogue to use spells and magic objects because I could not resist using the dozen of spells I looted - but quite frankly I think rogues should be stripped of this skill completely.

Fasin

26-10-2004, 23:51

The general concensus seems to be spells: yes - firework displays: no

And I agree with the fact the UMD is a bad idea for rogues. I think it was just included to give the class a magic skill of some sort. It never 'really' made sense to me. Why would a pickpocket know how to read a magic scroll or channel the energies in a wand.

If you want to use magic be a mage. It always bugged me when characters took a couple of Rogue levels just to get the UMD skill, or Backstab. Rogues are probably the most taken as convient class in NWN. But thats not a discussion for this poll :)

Just a personal peeve :P

Luinil

30-10-2004, 13:11

Toned down would be nice, removing it would be very bad.
I think it could be fun to put a serious slowdown on the xp magic-users recieve as it would make sure only dedicated players plays them and it would make the "serious" magic's a rare sight :)

Argon Balros

03-11-2004, 19:45

i think if you get rid of sorcerers and keep wizards in utt2 and make powerful scroll very rare perhaps with some sort of libary type quest to recive scrolls it would help make the balance better.

because at the moment theres no way a fighter type can defeat a wizards of equal lvl ehen they get into the 30s so theres not much point in playing a fighter so pretty soon where gonna be in a world full of wizards.

ghost81

03-11-2004, 20:01

Although I agree that in a one on one fight a Fighter can't beat a wizard (as has been seen in the arena the last couple of weeks) I disagree that there's not much point in playing a fighter.

I know I can't beat an equal, or indeed lowerlevelled wizard in a straight fight, but outside the arena I rarely get into such fights. And on those are occasions I'm confronted by a wizard I'll RP to avoid a conflict - Lolinus ain't that suicidal.

It is only PC wizards who are the problem though, npc/monster wizards don't offer the same inevitable defeat. The only times I've really come across PvP vs wizards outside the arena has been on faction raids, and a player wizard has yet to regularly turn back the Dwarven Wall of General Ironfist et al, including their non-Dwarven companions. Some have tried but have ended up splattered across the walls of the Black Gate (Damn shame that). In these bigger confrontations there tend to be too many targets for a wizard to be that effective - if he's targetting the Fighters, the archers are peppering him, if he takes the time to attack the archers he'll find his skull meeting with a couple of Dwarven held axes.

So I would say wizards are only too powerful in small scale PvP, rather than in effecting the enjoyment of the world as a whole.

Having said that they won't have such an easy time in UTT2, with item maxezs being much lower it'll eb a lot harder to get that really high ac, and whilst this will effect ab to an axtent a pure ftr or ftr/wm type will have a much easier time of dishing it out to a wizard when they get close.

WreckSC

04-11-2004, 12:48

Ghost,

I've been putting quite a bit of thought into 'class balance' recently for UTT2 and bouncing a few ideas back an forth with the world builders.

I think you have it the wrong way around btw, classes like wizard/sorcerer/cleric are going to become more powerful, much much much more powerful. This isn't of course including the new prestige classes that Av is working on which could change a few things.

If you think about it, a big part of the new change is the loss of equipment. At the end of the day when it really comes down to it (for a balance perspective) all that does is add numbers to your char sheet to make your char better or worse. Now a 'fighter' type has just those items available, the wizard has the same kind of options available in his equipment. But, and here is the killer he can still cast all his buffs and all his blasting magic will go straight through everything now. The cleric can heal, and still use all his buffs etc etc. Ironically both would make a better wall more than likely than a fighter (unless you have a dwarven defender of course).

There are exceptions of course. A big levelled Weapon Master for just beating something into submission and of course you are also going to get a tonne of dwarven defenders.

The classes will never be balanced, we all know this. I think the problem we face is that the gap will increase not decrease if we are not careful. The best will be even better.

Still its all being worked on, and should be interesting to say the least. Ironically I think its going to mean the most 'normal' of all the classes gets kicked in the nuts, the basic fighter as it does everything worse than a lot of character types and has no real 'options' or 'get out of jail' cards likes the caster types.

What will I more than likely be playing as my main char in UTT2 btw?

A fighter of some sort :)

Cheers

Wreck

DM_Kev

04-11-2004, 13:08

Thought i'd throw a few words in on this issue as things stand now.

UTT2 is currently developed upto about level 9ish. I've run a number of tests using different character types and the results so far look very encouraging.

- Fighters are as they were before; a good all round class to use. With the middle earth setting, you can expect fighters to be a more commonplace class, so im happy for them to be suited to most situations. Becoming a weapon master is going to give quite an advantage indeed. But I can see melee specialists having to make some tough decisions - to take more combat skills or more protections against magic, which will decimate them if they are faced with a competant spell caster.

- Mages are certainly stronger in terms of the amount of damage they can deal, but I must stress how they are now significantly easier to kill - Less AC and the fact spells such as haste are going to have to be cast first means that this is a very 'skill required' class.

As the module is developed more towards epic levels, i'll be doing my best to keep the extremes between the classes as tidy as possible. Should be very interesting though :)

ghost81

04-11-2004, 13:17

I think the real balance issue comes up in PvP. Not being a wizard doesn't stop Lolinus from smashing his way through most things, although of course certain areas he needs to be in a party to complete - as it should be.

The problem isn't an easy one to sort as its part of the NWN system. The original campaigns were only ever playtested and designed for soloplay. So each character had to be able to survive these campaigns regardless of class. However one of NWN selling points is the toolset and the online gaming, which if course tends to be multiplayer - the game was never playtedted for multiplayer class balance, hence certain classes are far too powerful in such situations.

What I said about UTT2 was based on a conversation I had with a wizard where they were saying fighters could very rarely hit them due to an AC of over 80 - about half of which came from items. The various AC bonuses you can get from Dodge, Deflection, Natural, Armour currently add up to about 40ac, my understanding of UTT2 items is that this would be dropped to about 20max (is it +5ac max?), whereas the most a fighter will lose to his ab is just 5 or 6, (having a +4/5 weapon rather than plus 10) which makes it much easier to hit the wizard 'once' you've closed in on them. The trick will still be to close in on them though - their spells will still be damn powerful.

Heh heh - postd same time as KEv, and he touched on the same thing about ac as I did. :hmph:

WreckSC

04-11-2004, 14:01

Actually my money is on the mages having if not equal to, higher ac than the fighters as we have now (70ac ish maybe more at least by my reckoning without them having to try too hard.). Then you have to get through their buffs while they are hasted for 80 rounds heh.

Anyway, it doesn't bother me, I'm still going for the old fashioned approach to dishing out pain, the sword and steel way for the most part :)

DM_Longbeard

04-11-2004, 17:47

I say, if after testing, these magic using classes do prove to be more powerful than their equal level counterparts, the easiest way to balance this out would be to change the xp requirement for levelling up.

IE: Make the magic users need 150% of what the other classes would require to gain their level.
Yes, they will still be more powerful, BUT, they now have reason for it, they have worked their asses of to get enough XP to gain their levels.

End result, magic users will generally be lower level than other characters. (created at similar times of course)

There will be differences, there always will. Id like to see spell casters working in parties more, not a group of three mages/sorcerers. A proper party of mixed classes. Here is where one mage can be more powerful than three.

The one mage has no offensive spells, he uses everything to buff his party to better the skills of the other members. An overall increase of power that lasts a long time.
The three on the other hand only use offensive spells, but between them they cant cast enough fast enough to tackle this well prepared party.

You may think it a stupid and futile thought, from my observations of the majority of spell casters i have seen, you are probably right.

To those who help their party more than trying to cause damage, my hats off to you.

LB.

PS. Dont tone it down, just make it harder to achieve the power, if its toned down i cant be nice to my party. :)

Fasin

04-11-2004, 19:33

like the sound of that. Well I would. wouldnt i
Itll be like magic users in the old D&D days when they had higher XP requirements to advance a level than other classes. I think they had the slowest development.

Like i say i like that idea. But i reckon plenty will complain. :)

ghost81

04-11-2004, 19:41

Funny thing, I was about to say much the same as Fasin. I tell you its dangerous having played D&D from an early age (and even an early edition) you all start to think the same way.

Also this would mean that a wizard would have a much more PnP role - at the back of the party - shooting off spells and buffing his/her friends and praying the Dwarven Wall/meat shield whatever you want to call it, holds long enough for the enemy all to be killed. Its amazing how much wizards start taking party support spells when they know that their party is the only thing standing between them and destruction. ;)

SNarfel

04-11-2004, 21:50

I like playing a wizard... and have no problem with them having to get 150%xp compared to normal if it balances the game....

aka Frain

TheStoryteller01

05-11-2004, 14:27

Originally posted by Fasin
like the sound of that. Well I would. wouldnt i
Itll be like magic users in the old D&D days when they had higher XP requirements to advance a level than other classes. I think they had the slowest development.

Like i say i like that idea. But i reckon plenty will complain. :)

I remember us playing 75% of the same time with the same group and leveling was always done within the group. We hadnt the opportunity to work on a wizard on a free day to catch up.

Its not a hard guess that on a PW I can ALWAYS catch up so it comes simply down to that magic users will have to be played by people with more time than others and so still beat the sh!t out of anyone else 1 on 1.

What about making magic users to be a PURE class instead of raising XP? No more rogue lvls for stealth/tumble, fighter lvls for hp/weapon and cleric lvls for healing/armor would make the magic users the powerfull but vulnerable beings they were in D&D 1ed PnP

Argon Balros

10-11-2004, 12:44

i think the best way would be to heavily restrict resting on higher lvl spell users

Luinil

10-11-2004, 14:16

I almost always play a mage, i love playing them wether its a wizard or a sorcerer no doubt there. A few comments though.

Forcing mages to be a pure class wont really do that much of a difference i believe. Im playing Mard Davis, he is a sorc/pale master and i believe that would be a pure class unless you want to remove prestige classes from mages aswell. He's still pretty powerful compared to many others, the only times he really get hurt is from crits, and that'll stop when i get lvl 10 PM (lvl 5 atm).
That said i do disagree with everyone who takes three levels in something and then never touches it again, i believe you should have an IC reason for your character to begin on this "new life" that he starts, and stop with it too!

Longbeard mentioned that he loved mages who were used to buff up their party instead of using offensive spells, as a comment to that i would like to point out that sorcerers aren't always in a party, it still happens there are only 4 people on the server at certain points, and for those four to be able to work together within the same level range and not mind each others presence (good/evil) the chances are heavily reduced. A sorcerer doesn't have the ability to choose a lot of spells, so if they base them self on supporting a party they may get a very boring time here. Wizards however have no excuse and helping the party should be expected.

As for the AC discussion i recently did a small test and found out that if i specifically design a character for it i can get him to have more then 100 AC, and we are talking a mage yes.
In my oppinion one of the things that must be changed is automatic still feat. (its epic) With it you can wear a full plate/tower shield and still cast spells with no risk of failing!

On the note of PvP and that everyone must be equal in it, im sorry to tell you guys and girls but this is based on a PnP game that doesn't include PvP so there are no reason for them to think about it, they work together and have fun with that, so what if the mages would be able to destroy all the others, it makes no difference what so ever cuz you are helping each other (with a few conflicts every now and again but nothing too bad).
Things aren't fair in PvP, they wont ever be, when you make it so the +6 and above weapons are gone mages will be very happy because they suddenly can use premonition with great effect against you melee'ers, actually having something that isn't out dated when we get it cuz they all are now (epic warding excluded).

SNarfel

10-11-2004, 14:34

Luinil I agree with what you say about PvP, only problem is that I get the impression some characters have been created specificaly
with winning PvP battles in mind.

:confused:

I could be wrong.

ghost81

10-11-2004, 14:45

Just a quick thing to be wary off - Pale Master and immunity to Crit - don't be surprised if you don't see them in UTT2. (particularly the immunity to crit).

*Fighters everywhere breathe a sigh of relief*

Fasin

10-11-2004, 22:16

Aye but having said that there are a few ideas floating about regarding more Tolkienesque classes to replace the ones that are going to become obsolete while at the same time offering a similar 'type' of character to play just with a theme that fits the world more effectively :)

So dont worry too much

dsan1

11-11-2004, 04:36

well, what about getting rid of the optical effects on blades?

at the moment, almost every guard in every city is walking around with his blade on fire/ electric/ whatever. not to mention pcs.

this is looking VERY nice but not very tolkienesque.

i don't know if lowering magic would not lower fun as well on the server. but some optical effects could be limited to keep it a little closer to the books.

i think in the lotr, no firy blade at all is mentioned, in the simarillion there are perhaps two or three ("grond" is on fire i think but i'm not even sure about that), but these are the mightiest weapons of ea's history.

just a proposal ...

keep doing that great work!

Fasin

11-11-2004, 18:10

Ive thought that for some time. Plus I feel it must have some impact on frame rate and server workload with all those alpha channels for the renderer to handle. Animating textures usually kill 3D engines and eat up graphic memory like candy.

It certainly wouldnt hurt to have only legendary weapons - or weapons of 'maximum' power to be the only ones to have dramatic visual effects on them. The rest would be well served by simply having a dim coloured light as a property, if they are special or magical. Maybe thats something to bear in mind when designing items for the next mod. Keep the look nore natural or subtle.

Regarding the same point - the guards at rivendell, and even more so at minas tirith, do rather resemble jedi knights with their glowing swords waving about. :)

WreckSC

11-11-2004, 18:28

Heh, is it bad that I like glowy things? I know its not tolkien (apart from things like sting) but it looks so pretty on screen ;)

Actually, I know weapons only start glowing when the enchantment reaches a certain level. It might be d6 that triggers it, can't remember what the value is, but certainly say a 'fire' sword with only a couple of points of bonus damage doesn't glow.

From the other end of things just pure gameplay, it does kind of help as an identifier. Sometimes when the screen is busy with all kinds of monsters and fighting going on it makes picking out an individual easier if you can see the glow as it stands out from the confusion of the rest of the screen. As NWN gives us the 3rd person birds eye view we are obviously not right down in the thick of things, but viewing from what is probably about 100ft away in the air somewhere so it makes picking out your allies as well as enemies a bit easier when trying to knock down that creature in the middle of a big fight.

Still interesting idea, maybe I have been playing NWN so long I don't notice the fact the weapons glow as being a bad thing any more, I've just got used to it (and mages covered in floating eyes, globes with green and fire surrounding them ;) ). I just see it as a way of convaying information back to the player that otherwise would be difficult for the game engine to do.

Beeline

20-11-2004, 17:35

...Practically every rogue or monk is well advised to throw some levels of magic into his character and there are some race/class combinations that dont even give a penalty.
[/B]

Hmmm, id not advise it. Pure rouge is much better, more fun, the best sneak and deadly damage - even from range, good with a bow too cos of his high nimblness. And he can use scrolls and wands, and even some staffs soon. Hmmmm, throwin wiz lvls in sounds like NWN, not MERP.

ps. i voted yes too. Im all for making characters with great strengths and weaknesses, wizards need more of the traditional weaknesses they used to have, not able to all walk round in heavy armour, shield drawn and even a sword out in expertise mode and with epic mage armour stopping all but Haleys comet from penetrating to his skin. PMs would never take a crit either. I think the main spells to change would be the mega-long duration ones, which seem good for RP, but not so good in PvP.

DM_Longbeard

21-11-2004, 16:05

A note on reducing the amount of magic in MERP.....

This means for me
Getting rid of ALL items that have any cast spell effect. Staffs with extra spells, helmets that cast mind blank, etc... These would cease to exist. This means all you fighter types will have no protections/buffs unless you have a wizard or cleric type to give them. Also, wizards will have to use their spells and not have MORE power because of the items they can possess. Giving magic classes extra spell slots would be like giving a fighter extra attacks.

Sorcerer class should be abolished completely and wizards should be renamed to Sorcerer. Too little thought is required to create a sorcerer. No offence to those who love their sorcerers.

Quite a few spells to be nerfed also, perhaps a timelock on every spam friendly spell.

Thats all for now, see what people think and i'll bring more up.
LB

Argon Balros

21-11-2004, 19:10

sounds good

WreckSC

21-11-2004, 23:41

Not sure I agree with you there Longbeard.

Things like mindblank / deathward etc. Sure they give a 'fighter' or non magic user an edge for a time, but they do wear off damn fast. (lucky if you can make them last an encounter to be honest).

Without resistances, the non magic types are going to have a hard enough time as it is with UTT2. A minute or two of respite from mind effecting or whatever isnt going to swing the tide for long, just give the character a bit more time to think and act.

Also, get rid of sorcerers. Well ok, they can look like they 'spam' a spell, by their nature they have to. What I hope, rather than kill off another class is that we at least try them out. If a sorcerer goes full out 'blow everything to kingdom come' with their spells, they wont be able to buff and they wont be lasting too long out there if they choose to go it alone. They will need a party to hide behind and recover.

To give you an idea, never mind when a couple of fighters met a boss or 'harder' encounter, in the tests so far, soloing an encounter, just a basic encounter with creatures lower level than yourself in the tests so far for UTT2 is plenty hard enough trust me ;)

SNarfel

22-11-2004, 11:46

I'm with Longbeard...

I think mindblank and such last plent long enough... and they usualy cover the whole party with a single spell.

My view has always been that the wizards (and to a lesser extent sorcerers) play a support role 90% of the time and only in unique circumstances should they be at the forefront. Thus in a long encounter they would not have just one protection spell memorised but a few and they would cast another spell before the current one expires. As such I agree totally that equipment and such with magical protection, especially against mind spells and similar, should be very rare and very difficult to get hold of.

I do think that staffs with magical properties should be an exception (although they may be made less powerful then at present) and should continue to enhance a wizards or sorcerors inate abilities, simply because in my view a staff is an extension of the wizards magical powers as a melee weapon is an extension of a warriors powers (warriors hurt more with a weapon than without... similarly a wizard magical ability should be enhanced by his staff).

aka
Frain

Argon Balros

22-11-2004, 12:10

well its all very well saying somthing is gonna be rare but if another respawns every reset you can gaurante eventualy most people will have one. perhaps if you could make these rare items untradable and undropable.

Luinil

22-11-2004, 13:48

Untradable and undropable is a bad idea, but they could be given out by DMs only which would keep them rare and mean no monsters got them on their drop list (which aint the same as undropable)

Argon Balros

22-11-2004, 14:25

i have an idea to restore a little balance with out taking imunity critical of pale masters,
seeing as palemasters are undead make them suceptable to spells thet efect undead like dispell undead and the like :)

Luinil

22-11-2004, 16:27

PMs wont be in utt2 so nothing to worry about there. Though if you insist on the fact that we are undead then i want to be healed by neg energy, immunity sneak, fear, disease, poison ect...
see where im going?

Argon Balros

22-11-2004, 16:30

yes i see where your going and i still agree

Luinil

22-11-2004, 16:32

well, i would be all for making it like that, dont think too many others are though

Argon Balros

22-11-2004, 16:39

it makes sence that if a character becomes undead they should have the same strenghs and same weaknesses of an undead

Luinil

22-11-2004, 17:45

a PM is not undead though, far from it

DM_Longbeard

22-11-2004, 18:29

Wreck, you must have something wrong with your helmet mate. :)
"insert bad jokes about helmets here"

The mindblank from mine lasts till i need to rest, at lvl 38.

I think thats way too long.

So if we reduce the duration, players just buy more of the same item.

All these ideas i state are ones based on when i play a character more than when i see others as DM. I know not everyone is going to agree because they are my opinions.

"My view has always been that the wizards (and to a lesser extent sorcerers) play a support role 90% of the time and only in unique circumstances should they be at the forefront."

Snarfel, im glad you consider the mage class in such a way, this is what im trying to get others to understand. Someone who knows they have such power would not blatantly waste their abilities, rather use them to their most efficient application.

LB

ghost81

22-11-2004, 18:33

I do believe that the removing spells from items will work really well, if you can find a wizard to journey with in certain areas, who is happy to take the kind of spells which would replace these items - Mindblank for example. This would firstly encourage partying (which is always a good thing) and encourage mage players to take a balance of spells. However if you can't find mages willing to do this it will make certain areas unaccesible to some people. If you go into an area where there is an enemy who casts 'Wailing Banshee' or whatever its called without mindblank from somewhere - be it cleric, mage or item, you're chances of surviving are well down. Having said this I do support removing a lot of these effects from items.

Beeline

22-11-2004, 19:30

After reading all the above, and in general....

A player will not be able to travel everywhere in the world solo, there will be places you dare not go without finding the correct help ie. a wiz or cleric for instance. This also means there are places if you do dare to go, and survive, you have an experience to share, and boast about!

Buffs will come from magic users, not items. Items with powers such as ghost visage or mindblank in Middle Earth would be very rare indeed, and unique in nearly every instance. These would be treasured by their owner, kept safe. Imagine Bilbo, he got a ring, it was unique(probably the most powerful) but would he give it away? Bah! you try and he gets really nasty about it! hehe

just my oppinion but what ya all think?

ghost81

22-11-2004, 19:33

One word - 'Nice'.

DM_Longbeard

22-11-2004, 20:00

Yup - Nice!

Hit my nail on its head Beeline. :)

LB

Fasin

22-11-2004, 20:07

I love the idea of item uniqueness. Be nice to have a weapon that other people dont, instead of everyone weilding identicle axes on occasion because its the only one that ll hit the beastie. Cool :)

Be really nice to earn a treasured item by your characters observed deeds, rather than just going to kill a known enemy and waiting for your turn to loot the gear. Itll mean more DM involvement in quests but if they can manage it, it would be great.

Azmar

23-11-2004, 01:16

Have I been here that long?
I remember receiving a unique item long ago with a shifter called Azmar. Had this item all the way until the character wipe.
Having a something unique adds to the character if you ask me.

Why not go one step further and have relics/items accross the lands that bring benefits to the areas they are located in.
A balance of power if you will. If these items are "relocated" the power shifts.....(I have no idea if this is feasible). Just a thought.

Argon Balros

23-11-2004, 11:29

i think its theasable but woud require one helll of a lot a work from the already busy team creating UTT2

DM_Kev

23-11-2004, 11:47

I have a range of custom items in the UTT2 palletes that currently have no home in the world. I have good mind to use these as unique items used for events and such.

WreckSC

23-11-2004, 11:51

Well I'm still not convinced about spell items being (on the whole) removed from items.

Mind blank off a helm lasting till rest? wow. The only ones I've seen have only a low level version of the spell, so it doesn't last long at all. If the character using the item is say a cleric or a mage, does it use their caster level to determine spell duration then as the whenever my high level fighter uses them they last a very short period of time.

If so fair enough, the spell casters still get an advantage with using these items.

I'm not going to post a full blown response now as I'm at work.

In the testing for UTT2 I have been invloved in however, I don't think you realise what a tough time the non-magic types are going to have. It's verging on the impossible. The 10th level ranger I was testing with last time would have died to 2 yes 2 creatures ranked lower than themselves most times. These werent any special monsters, just bog standard basic fighter encounter creatures. Now most groups of monsters were 5-6 in number and if by some unhappy chance one of those was a spell caster we died really often.

Where as add a mage or a cleric and we were just thinking, 'well they could just cast this and it would be a walk in the park', possibly them soloing it.

I don't want to see mages and clerics spells crippled either. I enjoy playing the 'game' and like seeing the verity of class types about. But I don't think the world is necessarily going to be a better place just because we decide that there are no spell casting items around to help out because its 'more middle earth'. Sometimes game play has to come first to make it fun, I think in moderation this could be the case here.

Beeline

23-11-2004, 18:51

IMO - I agree with Wreck that the server has to be fun alongside serious, cant be too heavy going or people might not stay. At the same time I believe most of the fun on a RP server is in the RP, not the fighting.
By keeping items like were talking about to a bare minimum, unique and generally as a DM reward -
1. they go to the right player, someone who deserves it because of what they bring to the server, not because of how powerful they managed to build their char.
2. individual chars in the world have their special powers and uses. ie: "lets find Grignor, hes got an axe that can cut through that door" or "well never get the loot in that chest without a real master thief opening it for us." or even "we gotta find a cleric to cure that desease, your skin is nearly falling off!" These are good real RP situations, nobody can do everything, cept maybe Gandalf!
3. from a player point of view it is a great reward to be given something like this, makes you proud, and treasure what you get. If you could get "insert item here" on your own, either from a shop or mission it becomes like fools gold, the first 2 or 3 are special, then everyone gets one, and you may as well give all chars that power as a feat when they start the game. Everyone will get one and use it. It devalues the object, makes the opposing attack or spell useless, devalues the areas you can go to using it as well as the control a DM has traditionally had over special items. ie. rewards.

Personally I have found after travelling the whole world of ME here many times I end up going to the same very few areas because i know theres nothing for me anywhere else. The world for a char in MERP should be there to be explored, excitement in going to new areas, intruige over what an unaccessable area might hold, joy after waiting 4 months to get the experience to survive an area to finally see what you have heard so much about. Its not likely a real life being in ME would ever travel the whole land and know every town and road there is to know.
Just my oppinion. :)
'Blast! All them trees lookn the same ter me Dun. Which way we headin?'

Argon Balros

24-11-2004, 03:09

an old expression comes to mind "two wrongs don't make a right" if its to hard against groups of monsters who have a mage with them why not simply have less or weaker monster magic users.

Beeline

24-11-2004, 13:49

could do, but in my mind MERP2 is going to be hard, very hard. Players will spend a lot more time around town, chatting and RPing a community because goin out alone is too tough. It will be weeks before players of opposing factions might meet and when they do battle is not a neccesity as death will be painful to swallow. (heavy RP loss) This will increase the chance to RP a situation, it is more real, in the spirit or Middle Earth.
In this way players are rewarded for RPing, parties are easier to find because players stay in town a great deal more and if your character is useful, interesting or just fun to be around, youll find gaining experience easier as your always with company. As in the real world of Middle Earth, for any character to venture out alone, death is only a stones throw away.

In real life people gather together, use each others abilities and take strength and safety in numbers, so it is in Middle Earth.

Im not 100% sure of xp penalties etc, but tis how id like it.

ghost81

24-11-2004, 14:18

I agree with Beeline on this one. I think one of the reasons peopele can drift away from RP as things are at the moment is because a lot of the world can be soloed quite easily. (As an example my second dwarven character Negnus is almost lvl22 and has been in a party maybe twice). If the world is tougher and partying becomes more necessary then peopel should be meeting more often, and RP'ing more. I'm sure some people will still team up without any RP, but as most of us enjoy RP'ing a great deal there should be a lot more opportunities for us to do so.

Argon Balros

24-11-2004, 14:54

i love the roleplay but i find that there comes a point where theres nothing left to say and every one just get bored at the same time you can talk for hours with some people but i think their needs to be somthing to do while we wait for when for when roleplat runs out,

perhaps in the arena under greyflood tavern have battles with capture monsters for no exp reward but simply for testing your skills and betting upon

SNarfel

24-11-2004, 16:20

Originally posted by Argon Balros
perhaps in the arena under greyflood tavern have battles with capture monsters for no exp reward but simply for testing your skills and betting upon

I like the sound of that suggestion.

Argon Balros

24-11-2004, 17:11

i think if people will be spending more times in towns and citys entertaiment will be vital to stop people being so bored they try to solo

Fasin

24-11-2004, 17:15

Originally posted by ghost81
I'm sure some people will still team up without any RP
This is fine if the characters are already old friends but what always bugs me is the odd occasion where a complete stranger on the other side of the server of an unknown level and alignment sends you a party invite.

I dont want to sound like a killjoy but it seems totally divorced from the spirit of the game world. You should only do that if the characters have met before, otherwise it just looks like an XP farming tactic to me (ill share mine with you if you share yours with me), or worse a habitual powerlevelling. At the very least it demonstrates a complete lack of discretion as to who your character will work with and that seems like bad RP.

Hmm we seem to be driftin off topic. Or I am at least :P