View Full Version : Crafting is online!
A trial version of the crafting system is online. It is pretty basic just for now, but I am already expanding it with a range of armours, as the current version is weapons only.
I have spent many long days and nights working on this, getting the backbone of it all finished. So Im keen to see how practical it is live and online.
Here is how the crafting system works:
- To begin any act of crafting, use an anvil by clicking on it. There is currently one anvil in the Tharbad smithy.
- To craft weapons, you need 'craft weapon' skill.
- To craft Armour, you need 'craft armour' skill.
- You can only craft an item if you meet the required number of crafting ranks for the weapon/armour. Only items which you may craft will appear on the lists. So as you gain skill, more will be available to you to craft. So basically, the better the item, the more skill ranks you need.
- Crafting items will require gold and components. An item will cost 300gp x its item level. So a level 10 shortsword will cost 3,000 gp to craft. The crafting menu will tell you what components you need. Components can be found in chests. Very valauable components can only be found in the high treasure chests. Components are also sold, at very high prices from a place which im not going to tell you till you find out :)
- On successful crafting, the components and gold are taken, if you posess them. Then you recieve the item you crafted. For crafting an item, you will recieve a small amount of xp. The more complex the item, the more xp you recieve. The formula for this is:
Item Level x 10xp. So that level 10 shortsword would have made you 100xp.
- Now, you may think that people may abuse this and spam craft weapons for xp or flog loads off for piles of gold from npc merchants. No they wont. Each craftable weapon is marked as plot. This means that npc merchants wont buy them. As this is PC crafting, I want this restricted to the players only.
This means, if you are a dedicated craftsman, you can setup a business with a real challenge. You produce your stock, but somehow you need to sell it! What items are in demand? How will you make sure you shift all your stock and not have a loa of unwanted items lying about?
This will lead to character companies I hope. Similar to guilds, but dedicated to trade and profit :)
And my last comment concerns profit for selling crafted items - Please be sensible with pricing. Remember that there are other craftsmen out there competing for customers. So if you charge silly prices, customers will just go elsewhere. Personally, I think you shouldn't exceed making back double what you spent. (Make an item for 3,000, sell for 6,000. Though if theres additional expenses, take it into account.
I hope you enjoy this new system. New items will be constantly added.
wyrmwrath
16-02-2005, 04:17
Will PCs be able to craft things like acid arrows, or is the list limeted to just the custom items that have been suggested on the board?
Yup. Arrows may be craftable by other means, but there won't be any stronger than the current ones as im counting them as small weapons - Max d6 damage.
I saw mentioned in another thread, reference to sorcerers crafting rings, amulets etc. What crafting skill will be required for this?
Cheers
Azmar
I fancy going for Spellcraft and Lore :)
I have been playing one of my characters, Silidril, as a healer of Este and am hoping to make her a Lifegiver of Este in MERPrc v.2 :)
In line with this theme I have taken the Brew Potion feat at level 9. I have now discovered, I know, I should have thought about this before but being a brewer of healing and other potions just suits this character perfectly, that empty potion bottles are pretty thin on the ground in Middle Earth! I have seen a few dropped or spawned in chests etc but can find no merchant that sells them. Is this right?
Can anyone who knows of a merchant that sells empty potion bottles let me know where Silidril signs up for her loyalty card?
Anyone who finds an empty bottle can probably get away with charging Sil a fortune!
Please could the Dev team think about making them in stock somewhere?
P.S.
Has the brew potion system been changed from the NWN standard and if yes how?
If not, how do people think it (and I assume the Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand systems) might be changed?
I mention this because reading over Kev's announcement above about his system for crafting weapons and armour, I notice that it involves a cost in gold and a reward in experience. This seems simply logical to me, unlike the NWN system which attaches an xp penalty to brewing, scribing or crafting a wand. Any views on this or any of the above?
The absence of blank scrolls and empty bottles has been mentioned a few times before, and it is unfortunately true that you cannot obtain them on the world (in fact, I'm surprised you say you have found them on loot drops).
I will look into making scrolls and bottles available from magic shops in one of the pending updates -- you make a very convincing case for them. :)
Spell scribing and potion brewing as well as wand crafting (except there are no large bones, I believe -- I'm not sure if that's because the crafted wands are too expensive to sell) are unchanged from their default implementations. We just never got to it. Consider this a call for ideas -- how do you think potion brewing or spell scribing should work? I know some systems send characters on hour-long trips through the wilderness looking for just the right berries, or have several dozen different types of ink to scribe scrolls of different schools and levels, which strikes me as complete overkill. I agree that it makes little sense to lose XP for creating something, and so I would be willing to change the system. Just keep in mind with your suggestions that we are *not* looking to make these things into a gold mine for players -- the profits should be marginal, if any.
Argon Balros
13-07-2005, 08:53
just a thought but how about having bushes all around the server that contain different types of berries and differnt compinations of berries could make differnt potions
Perhaps a reflection of the amount of magical effort should be introduced when the magic user creates one of these things. Temporary reduction to their abilities perhaps...a showing of the mental drain creating this item has on the creator. Maybe, depending on the level of item being created, the effects are longer lasting or more severe.
My point is, the more powerful an item is, to greater the effort to create it
As far as making money...there are rogues out there that would pay a smal fortune for some items, so no idea how you are going to control that without removing the rogue ability to use these creations.
Argon Balros
13-07-2005, 09:02
well surely when you make a wand you need to cast a spell on it so it uses up one of the uses daily of that spell
Having to hunt around for berries to brew potions has always struck me as taking the realism a little too far -- if people think that's how it should be then I'll do it, but I end up feeling there must be a better way.
Azmar -- when I was talking about making money, I meant largely players crafting things and selling them to NPC merchants. Trade between players is something we try to encourage -- not only is it something for them to do, but it also doesn't introduce any extra money into the economy. The ultimate example of what we want to avoid is someone buying cheap materials from a merchant, crafting them and selling them back for a lot more than they paid. This is just an unlimited source of income, and hence has no place on the server..
Well Argon...I agree that it could take up the use of that spell for a day. The problem with that is, the item you have created would probably have a number of uses higher then what you would get without rest. This could lead to magic users stocking up on items, and therefore increasing the magic in the world considerably. there is also the temptation to change your spellbook, create your wand, then change your spellbook again.
You can see were this is going!
As for making money....thanks for putting me right on that Aule.
Why not make these items non-trading to NPC's?
Still alot to discuss methinks
thromnombulax
13-07-2005, 11:30
The xp -loss upon creating an item would seem to cover the aspects you are discussing here; "magical effort needed to create the item".
Potions anybody can use, and scrolls still need a successful UMD roll, Azmar ; so yes a skilled rogue/ bard would pay highly to buy certain scrolls but needs a lot of levels to get a good chance of success trying to read them.
Wands seem very, very expensive to create in merp (it may be in nwn too ; i have only ever made wands here) from what i remember, and will be very rare. I know some characters made wands of invisibility and such (a wand of stoneskin would be useful , eh), i think all i could afford was a wand of summon badger ;p
The xp hit to create stuff seems to keep it in-balance imo, though i agree that making an item should really *give* xp ; in the same way that i think a small amount of xp should be given to making traps (1 per difficulty of trap or something)
Azmar old mate, you mention "low magic" and a potential need to curtail the rogue and bard skill UMD, *due to increasing the skills of casters*.... increase the magic in the world, then hit the rogues and bards where it hurts (i'm still biased towards rogues btw, in case you havent noticed) and stop em using it. Seems dodgy to me, considering that these classes are "jack of all trades" (masters of none) :)
The thing about crafting wands and writing spell scrolls is that they generally turn up at minimum level. So a high level mage will generally not want to craft a wand for something like bull's strength that will only last 3 hours, when he can cast it himself to last alot longer. The same applies to scrolls. However there are some scrolls or wands that end up higher, for example magic missile is scribed and made into a wand at 9th level.
The only variable I know of for higher level mages creating wands is that the number of charges go up. But the level of the spell is limited to 4th level or lower, so not that many spells will be useful to the caster themselves.
The only real use I have found on other servers for crafted wands was for one off spells that you rarely use, such as find traps. But since the cost of crafting wands is so high, Jonalin has certainly not taken that feat.
Higher level players have gold? That is news to me. I can assure you that some people still worry about where the next raise dead scroll is going to come from. Or can I replace all the healing packs I have used on that adventure.
As for clerics making heal, greater restoration and raise dead scrolls. That is fine if they want to as the xp cost will soon add up and at high levels xp is hard to come by. Unless you are 'helping' other people of course. I do think you should still have to pay xp for creation of items, not gain it. Otherwise there would be an endless supply of items.
Thromnombulax....(took me 10 mins to type correctly)
I would never suggest that the magic using abilities of rogues be removed, I have seen you guys in action...and lets face it, you need all the help you can get....:P
I was trying to put across that if the world is flooded with wands and scrolls, you rogueish guys would be the most obvious bunch to use them, and considering this is a low magic world, I was referring to low amounts of magics available to use, not low magic powers...
I hope that is clear, and Aule is getting enough Ideas from our ramblings :read:
Azmar
thromnombulax
13-07-2005, 16:04
Heh me too :)
It would be good to see parchment, potion bottles and thigh bones ; it may even tempt me off the rogues for a while again to dig out my chars with the scribe scroll/brew potion/craft wand feats..... but not for too long i think (since one of them is an elf *spits*) :)
The rogue / olog combo worked quite well i thought, Azmar, with the rogue buffing the fighter a little; it took gold out of the economy (to buy the scrolls of flameblade and elemental resist) and gave a fighting chance to small parties that lacked a dedicated caster. The small parties soon became larger parties as i remember, since when players logged on "on the off chance", others were online who had things to do that they *could* do. If the rogues had wands, there would be more of them about regularly maybe?
I'd vote for un-nerfing flameblade scrolls and un-nerfing the npcs' ability to ignore deadly traps in return for the introduction of parchment/bottles and wands. :)
"I'd vote for un-nerfing flameblade scrolls and un-nerfing the npcs' ability to ignore deadly traps in return for the introduction of parchment/bottles and wands."
How is this an exchange - you make a spell more powerful again, you make monsters weaker and you let us make potions, scrolls and wands! Hmm doesn't work for me.
thromnombulax
13-07-2005, 19:08
and bring players back...yeah yer right ghost81...bad idea. I'd hate to see people have something to do solo whilst they await a party.
*coughs* Less of that sarcasm, or I'll get ironic... you won't like me when I'm ironic...
Un-nerfing flame weapon isn't on, as it's broken -- the description states it as being limited, which is not how it works. I'm not even sure what you mean by the npcs' ability to ignore deadly traps, and I don't think I want to know...
Thanks to all the people who actually replied on-topic... some interesting points, including people approving of the XP hit -- that was unexpected for me, though I guess it does make sense. I still haven't formed a final opinion on how things *should* be, so if you want feel free to discuss that further. As a quick-and-dirty fix, I will put blank scrolls and empty bottles into some shops sometime soon, but eventually this area of the game will be redone. :)
DM_Olórin
13-07-2005, 19:51
Just to clear something up - and I appologise to Aule if this is off topic - but I want to respond to a few points raised. Middle Earth is a low magic world and we already have spellcasters without adding rogues to the list. Making powerful magic available to all classes will make those will ing to use them prosper while those who want to RP a non-magic using character in a low magic world suffer.
At the moment we have perfectly adequate magic items in my opinion. Feel free to disagree with me on that point but bear in mind what I have said above and the policies we have maintained so far.
As far as Throm's sarcastic comment about making magic more freely available being a means to attract players... Yeah... it probably would... reinstating red dragon disciple and pale master classes and reducing the xp loss on death penalty probably would as well, as would allowing half orc wizards, blatant power builds and triple classing...
Yes freely available magic would make it easier to solo. Yes there are fewer players around to party with. But do you honestly believe that if we changed the magic system to aid that sort of play it wouldnt be exploited in a party play.
When I DM i see that the much complained about nerfed magic is VERY powerful still. It makes the difference between a challenging encounter that would press the entire party to its extremes and a breeze in which no one gets as much as a scratch. Ive seen this happen many times. It makes it very hard to balance encounters without making the enemies tougher and tougher all the time (I mean tougher than they should be for the level of the party).
Rogues are not as weak as you think Throm. I myself regularly partied with another rogue, both hobbits and using realistic teamwork, not luring or anything like that, we managed very well indeed. There was not a single death between the pair of us until we reached level 5 or so. We had no magic above and beyond the potions we have now, we didnt endlessly repeat easy areas, and we didnt have fighter, cleric or mage support.
Steve-Law
13-07-2005, 20:53
This is off topic for the current thrust of the thread, but still on topic for the thread (crafting).
I'm also aware that it might have been brought up before, but I don't remember seeing it (and I think I've caught up with most of the forum by now), and it's the first time I've played a "trapper" char - albeit not a major focus, more a "hobby" (i.e. only a point or two put into trap related skills each level).
Anyway, what I wanted to ask was why do crafting gloves not give a bonus to crafting traps as well as weapons and armour? There's probably a perfectly reasonable reason, I just wondered what it was.
No, there isn't a good reason -- I believe the crafting gloves are a standard NWN item (at least, if they're custom, they were created before I joined), and so the reason they are as they are is that they are as they are. ;-)
It's of course open to debate whether a craft trap bonus should be put on them as well. Bear in mind that it would probably increase the level requirement for the item quite a bit.
DM_Olórin
13-07-2005, 22:33
I think that the present crafting gloves are meant as heavy gauntlets such as a smith might wear...
Possibly a new pair of gloves with a few sequins may be more appropriate for more delicate work :)
Well said Eddie, some very nice points there. Always encouraging to see poeple putting some serious thought inot waht they're saying, and making constructive comments.
But (and now I get off topic) Throm why bother to post things like that? ITs pointless, the last things its going to do is make people see things the way you do. In fact such sarcastic comments just make people thinnk nothing you have to say is worth listening to. Especially when what you are promoting is against everything the server stands for.
The last thing the development team are likely to do is increase the magic in the world, especially as the only things its likely to achieve is - promote solo play (which this server has been doing its best not to do) and secondly encourage more non-RP players, the low magic of the world puts offthe surper-blatser players, but encourages the decent RP'ers.
However having said my bit on this I'm now going to leave it alone. Reply sarcasitcally if you must, I won't respond, but bear in mind you'll actually be making my point for me.
Argon Balros
13-07-2005, 23:51
*considers making a sarcastic coment to take the presure off of throm but then thinks it would be funnier to share the fact he considered it instead :)*
thromnombulax
14-07-2005, 02:36
i was gonna post this
To my mind, druid/bard/ranger/paladin/rogue magic is more in keeping with a low-magic world than cleric/sorceror. I have caster characters (albeit level range 3-8, with craft item feats...one has 3 crafted wands in his pack and a "blank" one; others have brew and scribe feats but no materials to work with....they *should* be rare) but felt i couldnt play them further since magic was rare in ME, and casters too easy to level (my summoned pets earned more xp for me for a kill than i could earn without them..it just wasnt right).
If you dont want rogues to use magic then either 1)remove scrolls and potions from shops; a low magic world should not have magic stores or 2)remove the UMD skill. Or remove the rogue and bard classes.
Or, if we *really* want a low magic world remove all casters except rangers/paladins/bards/rogues (who are invariably intelligent and/or charismatic <unlike me as a player ;)> and can only cast from items)
Traps used to be able to affect ents, ice drakes and such like, but the opponents seem to step over them these days; thats what was meant by nerfed traps...they dont seem to work too good these days, and traps sure aint magical .. they are hand crafted from grommits and wotsits:)
If we wish a low magic world then introducing parchment and empty bottles isnt going to help. If "the last thing the dev team are likely to do is increase the magic in the world...." then keep the afore-mentioned items out mate.
The fact remains there is little constructive for peeps to do solo...and some peeps pop on solo until a party forms (as a few posters have mentioned, this thread and elsewhere)
but decided not to..instead i thought anarial summed it up nicely
http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=307663&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
a few peeps think they need sommat to do rp-wise when they aint got a party is all i seek to highlight. Why all get so defensive unless you kinda tend to agree? Your replies sorta speak for themselves .. you dont need me to make the point ,,, you did it for yourselves :)
Well thanks everyone for all the comments and thanks Aule for the quick-fix too :)
Player crafted weapons etc are marked plot to ensure that they can only be sold to PCs. It would make sense to apply this to all player crafted items.
I like the idea of making some potion types more costly than others. This could be used to control both gold and magic problems. Perhaps some types could be removed althogether.
Azmar and others, I hadn't thought about the xp penalty in that way, I see your point. Still not sure what I think about this.
Originally posted by thromnombulax
(...)Traps used to be able to affect ents, ice drakes and such like, but the opponents seem to step over them these days; thats what was meant by nerfed traps...they dont seem to work too good these days, and traps sure aint magical .. they are hand crafted from grommits and wotsits:)(...)
I am not even aware of a (worthwhile and easy) way of doing this, and I can assure you that (to the best of my belief) nothing has been done to traps. If they stopped being triggered by monsters, blame one of the patches, not us.
Back on topic, potions certainly do not strike me as being inherently magical. Aragorn effectively brewed a potion out of some herbs to delay Frodo's slipping into the shadow world, and he was not a spell caster by any stretch of the imagination. Even something like a potion of darkfire (which I hadn't realised you could do, and I'm not sure it should be possible) could be explained as coating your blade in some poisonous substance that causes a burning sensation in the wounds it leaves. Thus I'm far less concerned about including potions than about scrolls and wands. I remember, a long long time ago, when I first came to UTT1... A group of people I (used to) play with and I really wanted to take down Durin's Bane. We weren't having much luck, however. One thing we tried was get a spellcaster to make us wands of ice storm and then spam that spell at the Balrog (yes, yes.. I know.. I'm ashamed to admit that... I should dock some XP from those chars, if they were still around... ;)) Fortunately, the Balrog still beat us, and we accepted that and waited until we had a few more levels. And yes, nowadays this wouldn't be possible as most offensive spells are timelocked, even if you cast them from items.
This is an archetypical example of something we don't want to encourage. It is also the reason why I'm more hesitant there... Perhaps the XP hit is reasonably appropriate for wand creation at the very least, as part of the caster's energy is bound in the wand. Potion creation I'd be quite happy to leave with just a gold cost. What does the rest of the team think on this matter?
Hmm. That is quite annoying. I certainly don't see a summoning potion as being particularly fitting. Think I'll have a look at the brewing scripts when I get the chance and see if it can be restricted to disallow non-potion-like effects and (possibly) allow higher-than-level-3 potion-like ones... It'd also be a chance to adapt cost and spell level if it works.
As for them being non-stackable -- that is somewhat surprising for me, but handling of stackable items is atrociously poor in NWN.. That's why the meat/cooked meat items aren't stackable (though I guess they could/should be with a bit more effort).
Thanks for the investigation, Eddie.
Argon Balros
15-07-2005, 09:55
i think whats needed is a custom crafting sytem for potions involving the colection of certain herbs and beries :)
Yes, it'd be kinda cool if what you got were the proper MERP potions (potion of Tulkas) rather than the standard ones (Potion of Bull's Strength) or even generic bottles. The problem with that is that it only allows for crafting potions of a given strength... but from your description of what spell levels end up in the potions, that part is broken anyway... I'll see what I can do :)
timppako
26-07-2005, 17:49
Greetings and thanks for making a wonderful world!
I have noticed that with my dwarf's high ;) crafting skills (21 with all the plusses and bonuses), I am able to make something about 50+ weapons, but only 4 armours...
So I just would like to see more armours that could be made. Well heck I would also like to see more weapons to be made. :D Hmm, maybe some shields could also be nice...
The materials are exellent. I find that it is a good thing that they are rare and that some, mainly more powerful items, take many rare materials to make.
But keep up the good work!
Crafting will hopefully be going through a change some time in the future, so the number of items available to be crafted may not increase until after this momentous event.
However I have been told that the whole crafting system will be custom made and completely different. But well worth waiting for. Anymore than that I think is a closely kept secret by members of the development team, especially Aule the master craftsman himself.
I might add, your dwarf with high crafting skills will have an advantage with the system in progress.
Current system is good, but the one in the works is even better and allows us to add a lot more items to it.
*strokes his beard thoughtfully* Aye, he speaks verily, that Guyror person. Details of the new crafting system are mostly still a bit on the non-fixed side, but a high crafting skill will definitely be useful -- perhaps even more useful than currently. :)
Armours will definitely be craftable in roughly the same quantity as weapons.
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