View Full Version : Simple question about PvP rules.
Valek-Dark
21-02-2005, 15:02
Hey everyone, it's me again. Sorry to bother you all but I am quite startled by something I saw yesterday at Tharbad and was wondering if I didn't read the server rules too well or if they have been changed recently.
What happened was this: Someone (I won't say his name unless asked by a DM) was leaving caltrops all over the entrance to Tharbad and also dropping these "green myst grenades" all over the place. So basically there were a "million" caltrops both outside and inside the city, making it impossible to enter the city unarmed, with these enormous green clouds above them and at the Northern gate inside. The damage I took wasn't severe as I managed to spot most of the caltrops and the green myst was fairly easy to spot as well, but I DID take some damage! The problem was that I only saw the first caltrops when I was already stepping on them...
Fortunately it wasn't enough to kill me.
I have two questions:
1st: I believe this is a Role-Playing server and I don't think trying to kill me like this is within the rules of the server, but then again, I haven't been here as long as the player who did it so I WILL apologize if the rules have been changed and I didn't notice!
2nd: Why do it? Why not just confront me in open battle? Why not play our roles like we always do and face me with the accusations and reasons for fighting me? I mean, I had just talked to you in Tharbad and was more than friendly! I haven't said a single bad thing to anyone here yet, why use these cheap tactics on me? Next time PLEASE speak to me before you do this... It really took the fun out of the great night I was having yesterday. I don't know if that character was "evil" or not, but even if it was, just... talk before acting PLEASE!
I obviously have proof and witnesses of all this but I REALLY wish I do not have to use it, as I do not want any trouble with anyone... I am just REALLY confused and want some help as I am not sure if I'm supposed to report this, or if the DMs already know of this, or if I'm supposed to stay quiet and just be careful around Tharbad. I don't have a clue...
We have told players time and time again that this is unacceptable.
I would like the login and char name please.
Valek-Dark
21-02-2005, 16:27
*checks pictures* don't know his player name cause I can't check it but the character name was, let's see if I can write this correctly: "Anson Oakgrove".
wyrmwrath
21-02-2005, 23:43
Yes it was me.
First, I have never heard that such action was not allowed. Ive read the boards since UTT2 came online and seen nothing of it. Had I known I would have refrained, and apologise for the actions taken. It wont happen again.
Second, The PC responsible is evil, and has done this on several occasiosn to harass known good PCs. Its never done to PCs that are new or at risk of death from the few points caltrops do. Its done for RP reasons, and has never been expected to kill any PC it was used on. It was not he only action taken against your PCs that evening. When Anson cast the protectives on you PC and your companion knowing they were headed to Dunland, he followed you invisibly and rested just as you faced off against the leader in hopes you would suffer for from the sudden loss of the protectives. It wasnt personal, it was just evil and sadistic ascts commited out of RPing an evil malicious PC. Keep in mind that the PC DID talk to you, at leangth. However, no evil Pc is going to say..."hey by the way ill be stripping your buffs and booby traping your path later today ...just so your warned...". If it ruined your session, I apologise.
I am suprised, however, that you expect an evil mage to simply confront obvious warrior types, especialy on a server that has watered down mages as they are here. Mages just dont have the combat power here they do on a normal server to face off against a warrior. Then there is that factor that such confrontation isnt this PCs style. "why not just challange me..." is something a warrior would say, and not to be the expected paradignm of the other classes, except maybe a cleric.
The only left so say at this point is that now that I know that tactic isnt allowed by DMs, it wont be used. Ill have to come up with fresh ideas. Cant even use luring wold cats into the city since thats Brands personal pet tactic.
Valek-Dark
22-02-2005, 00:09
First of all I accept your apologies since you promised never to do that cowardly act again. But second, I HAVE to say this to make things clear, I am sure your character is "evil" and all but those weren't a few caltrops... that was, and forgive me the expression, a "mass spam of caltrops AND grenades" and trust me, it gave me quite a bit of damage, I was lucky to have rested not long before stepping on your traps!
In any case I am happy to know the rules are still the same and protect those who wish to role-play seriously. Thank you VERY much for your help. :)
PS: Be careful with those "fresh ideas", being a mage doesn't give you the right to Player-Kill those who have no intention of fighting other players outside a highly role-played environment.
wyrmwrath
22-02-2005, 01:30
Wow...nice back handed slam about the you being the only serious seriour role players. Ill refraim from retaliating in kind. Sorry 3 bags of caltrops and one choke bag cause such a ruckas.
thromnombulax
22-02-2005, 05:02
I've never used caltrops meself, my character usually make 'em into spike traps .. but i have seen 'em used and they do make rather a mess ( there seem a lot of them, i mean).
Also , in my opinion, Anson would be almost *obliged* to attack any characters he knows plan to attack Dunland, since the Hillmen are Sarumans allies and guard one of his borders. If i were you Valek me ole mate, i'd be thanking Wyrmwrath he didnt outrightly help the Hillmen in the fighting with a few fireballs or such.
Lastly, i look forward to teaming with Valek Dark again when you stop pretending to *like* playing good characters mate, and realise that evil is the only way :)
*muahahhahahahahahha(cough)hahaha*
Although an evil player may be 'obliged' to attack people he knows are going to Dunland, this should be done in Dunland itself. Dunland is a faction area and therefore attack on site is allowed. Tharbad is a non-faction area and therefore the RP-ing bevore initiating PvP/Hostile actions rule is in force. As has come up in discuassion in the past - Buffing yourself can be seen as a hostile action, so I would say that using Caltrops and Grenades would most definitely count as a hostile action.
I happened to stumble across a single dwarf running around Dunland slaying all the wildmen yesterday. Being the kind merchant that I was, I had a quiet word with him. Told him to 'go away and leave them alone'. Which he hastily did.
Is it required to defend the dunland from attack? As I am sure if I had intervened I would have been accused of griefing. As the dwarf was alot 'weaker' than me. As it was I had great fun watching him run in circles away from the wildmen, trying not to harm any.
Its not a requirement to defend them, but in many ways Dunland is the equivalent of Dunharrow - it does count as a faction area (although not one that needs DM supervision to be attacked) and therefore you are within your rights to help aid the defenders if you so desire - however this should be in the area itself, not outside of it.
It might be me who misunderstood something but I always thought that PvP required an RP reason, not that it required dialog ahead (and yoo R teh Ivulz0rz! is not an RP reason) If some person have paid my rogue to assassinate someone would you expect me to talk to the guy first? or just strike him down when I get the chance and I am certain it is he?
As I said it might be me who is wrong but I would certainly like it clarified.
Also I would like to question the RP in throwing around Caltrops and acid bombs (im guessing thats what it was?) within a town, surely the guards would act upon it! All my characters, regardless of intelligence, know that taking hostile action with the neutral towns will lead to their deaths, as all the guards would team up against me, and thus they avoid doing such. Sure I can be big mouthed and act intimidating, threaten to eat them or whatever I want to, but I wont actually do anything truely hostile before we are out of town (familars excepted as one of my characters sure likes to eat that bear!)
thromnombulax
22-02-2005, 12:04
Disuading is exactly your characters' style though Guyror; he probably wouldnt "dirty his hands" or "lower himself" to direct confrontation with an insignificant Dwarf, from what i have gleaned of his personality. I know a few other characters also who have had *fun* putting groups of Frees off attacking Dunland with several contrived stories (and Richard Wensbane, shame on you for once being so callous of a brokenhearted damsel in distress :) ).
With regards the placing of the caltrops and grenades ... i just reread the post and noticed "both outside and inside" the city ... so sorry and my bad there , i guess i shouldnt post at 4am after riding 15 miles through snow and ice (my eyes must have temporarily frozen over)
Argon Balros
22-02-2005, 12:20
so if dunalnd is clased as faction does that mean fangorn and that little stoor village are too.
thromnombulax
22-02-2005, 12:28
The stoor village is for very low level characters.. i dont know as to its faction affiliation because the hobbits there are "blue"/ friendly until attacked by the budding Thrall of Khamul .. i.e, you have to dialogue with them first before they go red/hostile (at least last time i checked), whereas the Ents are immediately hostile to evils (i think ... unless they're only so if you've done a faction mission).
Does the same hold true for Hillmen and good aligned characters? I cant remember.
Luinil ... who is your evil rogue, as three of us need a fourth to discuss a possible assassins guild idea (it must be evil in order to perform assassinations? ) .. if ya see us in game gissa tell if yer innerested eh mate:)
My understanding is that Dunharrow/Dunland are both attack on sight, defendable faction areas. The Stoor hobbits and the Ents however aren't.
The Ents are really neutral at this time, not good aligned, so although the good would care about the Ents they wouldn't be there likely to defend them - most of them don't know about the Ents. The Stoor hobbits are in an area where good aligned characetrs have no reason to be. Its part of the evil starting quests, its out of hte way not on a travelled route.
So my take on this is you can defend Dunland/Dunharrow - but not the Stoors or Ents. (The Ents could be a good reason for an RP'd PvP but not attack on sight.). I can see absolutely no reason for good aligned characters to even be in the Stoor Village.
Argon Balros
22-02-2005, 19:21
well i have a stoor character
As it is now I barely play at all so I wont be entering any guilds or similar means, besides that then my rogue is a goodie, not a well-liked one but a goodie nonetheless. Goodies can assasinate evil generals ect. and still be good :D
Edit: I would still like a DM responce on my question, is dialog needed before PvP or only a good RP reason?
Your character is a hobbit then I take it?
Mind you thats by the by, I will check up on this, but as far as I'm concerned goods shouldn't be in the Stoor village defending it.
Argon Balros
22-02-2005, 22:02
yes hes a hobbit. his back ground was to find heros to protect his home from the constant attack which he did today, both partys new the score and it went quite well. however his objective has changed a bit now, he wants to become strong enought to defend it him self as one of the defenders let his mum die whilst he was protecting the village.
"It might be me who misunderstood something but I always thought that PvP required an RP reason, not that it required dialog ahead (and yoo R teh Ivulz0rz! is not an RP reason) If some person have paid my rogue to assassinate someone would you expect me to talk to the guy first? or just strike him down when I get the chance and I am certain it is he?"
All PvP must be RP'd. We are not a server that forces PvP on people, and those who want to avoid it can normally talk their way out of things through good RP. This is a tricky situation - you'd need to explain what has happened to the character afterwards, or arrange to have them raised by a third party. The reasons for this should be fairly obvious. If you get paid to assasinate some-one, I personally agree that no you wouldn't walk up to them and talk to them - well not necessarily, you may do if you were trying to get their guard down.
But think about it from the other persons point of view - they've just had someone walk up to them and kill them for no apparent reason. If we start having assassinations like this the forums would soon be full of complaints about apparently random kills, and we'd probably see some grief killing. So before assasinating anyone think the thing through fully.
Hopefully Kev will have his computer up and running again soon, and will be bale to give his take on this.
Argon Balros
22-02-2005, 22:09
perhaps you should have to give them a tell first
or need dm supervision for if you poision their food
thromnombulax
23-02-2005, 02:19
From my perspective, and if anything ever comes of it, a rez fee would have to be included in the charge for the kill; i wouldnt like to see the general tone of the server degenerate. I dont think many need worry though... if you see the rogues fight at the arena they cant hit anything in armour:) so the assassinate attempt would have to be rp'd to get the target free of protections/clothes anyway..which kind of implies the consent of the target would have to be gained.
Did this type of thing come up on the previous mod?
Can a good character assassinate even an evil general? Killing for self-benefit for a good aligned sounds a bit dodgy.
I dont see why caotic good coldnt assissnate an evil character, as some of them may do what is best for the grater good and not have any qualms about making a little money out of it. Dwarves in particular come to mind who would possibly fit in to this role.
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