Grapling hooks

[Argon Balros]

my rogue just bought his first grapling hook but i can't use it, ive asked other rogues but their alos clue less so could some one please explain how you use them and what factors effect its use.

[Luinil]

you need high dex i believe

[thromnombulax]

Tried it every level from level 8/9 ish and my main rogue still cant use it, but he does have a poor dex (lack of my knowledge of game), even when items and potions / scrolls boost dex to 27 ish.
At least he no longer near dies when he slips and falls now though :D

[SNarfel]

27 dex ...... even with boosts and the currently allowed max level of 18 I wouldnt class that as poor!!!:)

[ghost81]

I believe its done on a Dex check, cos I know a lvl11 or 12 character, who Dex is going to 21 max, unmodified who uses a Grappling Hook quite regularly - not that he always suceeds, but he does quite often.

[Cullkett]

so you ned to make a dex check to use the grappling hook but what does it do?

[thromnombulax]

It grapples

[Cullkett]

you cur i'll see you in game:mad:

[thromnombulax]

Cheers ghost81; to hear a level 12 char has 21 dex really makes my day:)
I guess you the player knew of the existance of dex fighting and didnt use some stat gains on STR eh ;-)
If its a straight dex check on the grapple i'll keep trying with it then. My char has a bag full of potions of orome now to help in general day-to-day tasks like picking his nose, washing the pots , and pinching Avicas bum so a bag full of cats grace scrolls should mean he's able to use the grapple without being too embarrased.

[Luinil]

cats grace aren't available, aren't the name has changed :P

[Argon Balros]

no the scrolls are still available as that is the name of the spell it is only the potions that have changed.

from what i hear the dex requirments seem to high and why is the grapling hook rogue only if it has such high requirements for its use?

[Luinil]

Right didn't see he said scroll :|

Someone could use it with 21 dex, 21 is not a high requirement considering this server in time is supposed to take players into epic levels.

[Argon Balros]

you should'nt need to be epic character to use a grapling hook.

perhaps it use tumble skill or somthing and have a lowered dificulty

but thats just what i think

[ghost81]

You don't need to be an epic character to use it, as I've said I know a Lvl12 rogue who uses one - thats not epic, the maximum their DEX is is 21, thats not very high at all. Their Dex can't be higher than this, unmodified, they're human so a maximum of 18 dex at creation, and 3 pts from levelling - anyone can get this by level 12 if thats the way they choose to take their character, so I don't feel its too high at all.

[Silverleaf]

My character Valen De'Vir has a dex of 24 (base 20), and buffed up it can go up to 30 or so. He has to use monk armor b/c his dex his so high. Even though I'm a level 1 rogue, you say I should be able to use it. But I can't! *argh* I've seen a halfling rogue (level 6 or so) do it before, and I think it's levels as well as dex. It can't be tumble though. I have a tumble of around 20.

[ghost81]

My level 4 rogue (dex19) can't use it.

Once you can it doesn't always work, but if your trying to and falling it does means its within your abilities to use it.

[wyrmwrath]

What purpose do they serve? Can you get places others cant? can you trip opponents? Can you put a large trout on it and fish for shark near Laketown?

[ghost81]

With a grappling hook you can get up to higher levels of land, including areas others can't access. I can see the possibilities, a rogue in an unreachable area, in stealth, waiting for the enemy to pass by so he gets his sneal attacks (with crossbow) whilst being relatively unreachable.

*Starts plotting ambushes*

[DM_Kev]

I have plans for more use of the grapple. For example, treasure on elevations only accessible by grapple.

[thromnombulax]

Most Excellent.

Silverleaf ; now i see why Valen is so annoying .. he must be as ugly as an Orc with the personality of a dead Bison if he started with 20 DEX and enough WIS to cast ranger spells :D

[Silverleaf]

LOL! Want to know his starting stats?

15 strength
18 dex
8 constitution
14 wisdom
12 intelligence
8 charisma

That's why I have such a lack of hp, but a really good ac. And another reason why he sometimes ignores people and can be quite... yes... annoying/uncharismatic.

[DM_Longbeard]

Scripted to only work for characters lvl 10 and above...

Thats why it don't work I think...

Also wont work for any UMD classes that are not rogue... so no Bards can use it..

LB

[ghost81]

Aha, that would explain things, best if thats added to its description then, it doesn't say that at all.

[thromnombulax]

Cheers for the heads-up Silverleaf *starts plotting a new Uber-Rogue build with 30DEX*

Argon .. apart from level restrictions the grapple required multiple reflex saves which should be little problem by time level 10 rogue, but you have to be positioned quite close to the cliff face you intend to scale/absail. Think my problem was positioning the character too far away.
The grapple has to be thrown, attach to something then be climbed as far as i could tell and then the same to climb down. Khaz fell whilst climbing back down taking 30 damage...but fell back up to the top.
I would advise *not* practicing in front of witnesses less this happens to you.
Heh

[Argon Balros]

ok so i just need to play me rogue more then

[Silverleaf]

LB, is that level 10 or level 10 rogue?

[DM_Longbeard]

*pulls on his beard in deep though*

Arr, tha be it..

Lvl 10 Rogue, not character lvl.

LB

[Ptolomy]

Originally posted by DM_Longbeard
wont work for any UMD classes that are not rogue... so no Bards can use it..

LB

That means they cannot?

[Silverleaf]

Does that go the same with the dwarven barriers? It's pretty cool when a rogue or bard sets those up. :D

[Lorien]

I believe you have to be a Dwarf to use the DWARVEN barriers - funny that.

[thromnombulax]

Heh, maybe the skill "use magical device" will allow barrier construction, as it allows use of race-specific items with enough skill ranks ?
One to try maybe :)
*desperately discourages players from putting skill points in spot/listen*

[Silverleaf]

Valen set up a dwarven barrier in Minas Tirith before. ^^

[thromnombulax]

Was playing a ranger earlier today and noticed metal armour adversely affects the dual-wield thing, looked into it deeper and the armour concerned had a "-8 armour check penalty" which i figured is for doing moving stuff in armour (setting traps, stalking, dancing to folk music) . Would i be correct in assuming that the armour check penalty will make the grapple harder to use by 8 to the save roll ?

[Guyror]

The reason the armour was affecting the dual wield, is that a ranger only gets the dual wield feats for free, if you are wearing light armour or no armour. As soon as you wear the heavier armour, you 'disable your ranger abilities', and so loose the extra feats.

As for the climbing, ask the man that coded it. However if I was to make an educated guess (pah! fat chance of that). I would assume that since you need a minimum dex of 16 (i think) in order to initiate a climb, and full plate has a maximum dex of 12 while worn. There is your answer. So you might be able to climb in things like a chain shirt or less, but not a breastplate. Which falls into the 'common sense' bracket.

However ignore me if I am wrong, most people do. :E

[DM_Aule]

The armour check penalty applies to skill roles which are governed by Dexterity, of which there are lamentably very few (Hide, Move silently, Parry). It is at present not applied to the climb roll... however, it may be a good idea. As it stands, Guyror is correct -- armour that's too heavy makes climbing impossible. It may be interesting to increase the DC by the armour check penalty. I shall investigate. :)

[thromnombulax]

Cheers dm aule:) it was seeing plate mail clad orcs climb (with climbing boots, climbing gloves and dex potions) whilst my tunic-clad rogue kept slipping (rolling 2's and 3's repeatedly) that set me to investigate with the ranger.
:)

[DM_Aule]

I suspect there's some misunderstanding -- noone wearing plate mail should ever succeed a climbing attempt.

[thromnombulax]

Hmm; it could have been chain, or clothes crafted to look like armour ...some of them go nekked when they climb (not pretty i can tell ye), some of em switch to leather but i've fer sure seen one that *looks* dressed in metal armour climbing a lot... as you say it *cant* have been plate :)

[Steve-Law]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Grappling hook requirements have changed now haven't they?

I know Rufus is not even level 10 combined yet, let alone level 10 rogue and he's able to use a grappling hook. Okay not successfully every time, but it's getting past the more fails than sucesses pont (and very few damage fails).

I think his earliest success was about level 6 (or even 5). Took a lot of goes and loads of healing kits, but he got up in the end. Couldn't get down again but that's anothr story....

Anyway, someone told me in IRC that is was just (or mostly?) a reflex check (against 25 was it?).

I think the actual current grapple facts should be posted for new and old players alike.

(btw another funny thing happened with the grapple once, I grappled on to a house roof (or so I intended) but ended up inside the door, without being "in" the house (the house area) and unable to open the door (it was the spider house in Tarbad docks btw). heh, careful with those graples they are more dangerous and in more ways than you think...)

[DM_Aule]

*cough* (http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=306432)