pick pocketing [Archive] - Wireplay Community Forums

DM_Aule

08-03-2005, 22:40

I know what Argon is talking about.

According to the rules, pickpocketed goods only need to be returned if the thief is caught in the act and brought to justice/slain. In principle, pick pocketing is acceptable, as long as it sticks to the "three times per target and reset" limit, this is why the skill hasn't been removed from the game.

We realise sometimes valuable items will be stolen. Such is life. If your character spotted the theft *in the act*, I imagine it's fair enough to act it out as such and demand the item back. If your character *didn't* detect the theft (no, I'm not talking "He tried to equip his armour and it was gone", I'm talking "he saw/felt/noticed the theft (by using his spot skill) as it was being committed").

Once a pickpocket attemt succeeds, the fact that your character is missing an item and a notorious thief is in the area is *not* RP justification for bullying and taking it back forcefully (in my opinion -- not the dev team's).

It is up to player etiquette to return really powerful/vital items that were stolen, if they feel it appropriate. I can imagine that being threatened and coerced would not contribute to the desire of returning the goods.

Argon Balros

09-03-2005, 03:21

the problem i found is the theif of my item was in a no pvp area and she ignored roleplayed atemps to get it back IE *restrains her and takes the (item)*

it worked out ok with a little dm help but what if a dm had not been present?

morez

09-03-2005, 03:49

i bow to to those thieves that are starting a RP plot when they stole something valueable!

i had such much fun if Yûshmar's scimitar with the green stone in it the stone of his lineage which some heard the story would be stolen and he gets the chance to get it back...

wyrmwrath

09-03-2005, 08:29

If and evil PC leaving caltrops to harass good PCs is seen as PVP without proper proceedure, so to should be pick pocketing in a non-PVP area. It seems to me this would be a similar issue to killing a baby to provoke PVP in a non-PVP area.

I also notice that the occurence tends to coincide wit hthe arena tourney. Likely because of the large turn out and high profit for the rogue should he or she go unnoticed. I can understabd this, however the arena is designed to improve server community relations. If the good players ( since I have yet to see an evil PC get tagged by the thieves...i mean really, not the ruse tha has been used) begin to feel the arena gathering is to risky to thier hard earned gear, they may avoid it.

I do not feel there needs to be a rule created for this, except possibly clarifying/stating that any pickpocket attempt is considered a PVP action and is restricted to PVP areas.

Luthianna

09-03-2005, 08:29

Argon, perhaps if you'd simply "restrained her and searched for the item" instead of "taking the item" you'd have gotten a better RP response - after all, if it was a successful pickpocket, you can't *know* it was her...

If you'd done that to one of my chars, I wouldn't have been too happy since if gives you *no options whatsoever* for your RP - and even worse if you'd gotten the wrong person! What if another thief was standing behind you the whole time, whilst the one you saw was just a distraction whilst the real one got away safely...? Hmm...?

If you don't manage to get your weapon back, don't just say they didn't RP it well, you could've joined in.... perhaps even arranged to "pay" for a "similar" item from them via tell, so it looks to everyone else that you're handing over your hard earned gold, but neither lose out, and no-one's RP gets blasted by being "restrained" and forced to return the item... (which of course, they still might not have... if you didn't spot them doing the deed, it could've been anyone... ;) )

DM_Aule

09-03-2005, 09:03

I understand people not wanting to lose their gear. I also understand pickpockets wanting to practice their skills. Quite frankly, if you didn't notice the theft then you have no business going around shaking someone by the throat demanding it back -- *especially* as a good character.

If Kev sees fit to ammend the rules to "no pickpocket in PvP areas", then fair enough... as it is, there is no such rule, so you can't blame the thief in question. I realise that there's the danger of this being done excessively over the arena. Arguably such an event *would* present a perfect opportunity for pickpockets, but, again, I understand the victim's point of view.

What I *really* don't agree with is emotes like *restrains X and takes his sword back*. They're a big no-no. You can't do that. How do you know that the strength of the one you're trying to restrain isn't larger than yours, so that they'd laugh at you and toss you to the ground? How do you know they are not dextrous enough to evade your grasp with ease? My advice is, avoid *any* emote that describes what happens to other people's chars, or what your char does to other people's chars. Describe what he *tries* to do, and let them RP the response.

It's the difference between saying *glares at X and makes them cower in fear, begging for their lives* or *glares at X menacingly*. If you get my point.

Danae

09-03-2005, 09:08

I agree with Wyrmwrath's suggestion. I too would like to see pick pocketing restricted to PvP zones.

Argon Balros

09-03-2005, 09:49

i can't remember the exact emote i used and also i did try talking to her first it was not until she started waving my sword around and trying to sell it to other players. i also tried trying to sort out a way ooc in tells we could work it out.

SNarfel

09-03-2005, 09:56

Killing a baby and pickpocketing are too entirely different things for PvP scenario in my opinion.

Pickpocketing is common in areas of high population density i.e. cities. Baby killing would not be.

The reaction to pickpocketing in a lawfull city would surely be far less harsh to a baby being killed (yes.. I think this the case even in evil areas for even they have to have a common code of behaviour.. unless it is a slave master relationship).

Thus pickpocketing(if noticed) in a lawfull city should be resolvable by rp ing involvement of the athourities etc. Should the pickpocket choose to run and thus move into a PvP area be it on there own haed.. literaly.

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 12:20

***Pickpocketing is not possible in NO PVP zones .. the interface wont let you do it***
Tharbad is busy ... the inn is busy there are NPC females walking around in my view it is a bit dodgy to single out a female PC in these circumstances.
Valuable items are invariably returned to their owners for "reward".
Sometimes RL intervenes at the most inopportune times doesnt it; a phone call or a knock at the door can drag a player away from the keyboard for a short time.
How can you "restrain and grab" when you have a sword drawn and a shield equipped, Argon? Also , is it now possible to approach a PC anywhere and emote *takes all their emeralds* to gain items?
I believe the female pp in question has a 14CHA to help out when she is "caught with her knickers down" ... CHA isnt really a vital stat for a rogue but was chosen to promote RP of her personality, the player assures me. Also all picks were successful picks at that time. The only way the other PC's knew she was operating is because an elf saw her walking around in the busy pub and singled her out because she was a PC .. the elf was NOT saying "Hello Miss" to the NPC females in the inn.. so why to her?
The player of the character also has indicated that they feel there is no need for Evil PC's when the Goods seem to be a lot more evil-behaving.
PP is a class skill and the player NEVER abuses the 3 attempts/reset rule, and items are chosen by the AI from the targets INV.. there is no choice by the PP-er.
Rogues are weak in combat and high in skills and great fun to RP despite their weaknessess ... if you are going to destroy their skills then lets all make Fighter/Weapon masters with max primary attributes and 8 all other stats and go on a slaughter-fest.
The player of the character is a good friend of mine ... i have known them for some time and they are reticent to return to the server due to this incident, as they feel their character was unfairly singled out as the culprit, they were offered no reward for the return of the item to its previous owner, and the reputation of the character will be tarnished by the incident (unfairly in their view)

There are places to sell stolen goods.

This character, in her development (and with a different appearance) has been PK'd for unsuccesful PP attempts by (non-Chaotic) Good aligned players with NO RP prior to attack.

***Pickpocketing may only be achieved in PVP Zones***

Lorien

09-03-2005, 12:27

Pickpocketing is possible in non PvP areas - I know I've seen people be pickpocket in Tharbad, which happens to be a non-PvP area.

At the same time this inncident doesn't seem to have been well handled - especially as I was getting a running commentary from a DM at the time about what was happening.

However at the same time flaunting the sword and trying to sell it to others is gross stupidity on the part of the thief. No thief tries to sell things in their own back yard, people tend to notice when people are selling their property and that when the brown stuff hits the fan for the thief and fence both.

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 12:29

My chars have never been able to PP in Tharbad or Bree.. only in the shops and the Inn (which are PVP areas) ... on the streets it is only possible to pp the NPC's, who tend not to carry much.

She has a 10 WIS too :)

The item was put up for auction since there was no RP response from the previous owner, nor offer of reward "thanks for finding my sword here take this", merely multiple barter attempts.

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 12:36

Also, after DM input a few weeks ago, my chars do not PP in the arena despite being sorely tempted .. the arena is for duelling and PP may disrupt the proceedings which would spoil the fun.

Lorien

09-03-2005, 12:37

I would still say its ill advised to sell it in front of the owner - its basically giving them the ammunition to take any steps they want against the thief.

However as I said to my understanding the incident was badly handled up to this point - however we're tending to get two differeing views here.

The 'mark' is saying they did send tells, trying to sort out a way of havin gthe sword returned. The person representing the thief is saying this didn't happen. Now we're never going to get to the bottom of this as we as DM's can't see tells.

The use of tells is perfectly reasonable to try and negotiae the return of the item - and is mentioned somewhere as a reasonable aproach (of course now I can't find where).

However from my understanding of what I've read here and what I was informed by another DM the incident was badly handled.

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 12:41

The player was called away from the keyboard for several minutes at a very bad time game-wise and so may have missed some important information. The item was offered for sale when the previous owner refused communication IC in talk and OOC in tells, i am told. Hey such is life .. but it *was* a sweet pick eh :)
Next time the player may be inclined to simply sell the item to the fence immediately and therefore be 6 000 gp the richer and no one else any wiser ... the problem arose because the player wanted to return the item to its previous owner, as they have done in the past with "personal" items and quest items.

Lorien

09-03-2005, 12:45

I would advise we drop this now and move on.

It seems this went a little unfortunately.

As things stand PickPocketing is still allowed in town/inns etc as this is a much more likely place to be pickpocketed.

My guidelines would be if you actually notice the theft (it'll be in your dialogue box) then you have the right to confront the thief. If you don't your going to have to start asking questions as (in a town or city) there aer many people around and any of them could be the thief.

I don't think PickPocketing should be limited to outside city areas, cos every good pickpocket needs a crowd to work.

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 12:48

Just re-read the previous posts ... the theft was in a PVP area (inside the Inn) and the "accusation"/finding was in a NO PVP area (outside the inn).
The player of the thief is calming down slowly and should be resuming business soon.

SNarfel

09-03-2005, 14:56

Not sure if that would work, what if the PP can get more money from selling to a fence than the max limit set?

I say good luck to the pickpocket, if they dont get caught they should be free to sell the item to whoever they choose if they so wish.

I dont think any player should be be getting too attached to their items... sure its a pain in the proverbial if you lose something which is very difficult to get hold of but we should just accept that as players on a mature rp server.

Ofcourse that doesn't mean that your character should keep quite :) , he should rant and rave about it as much as his personality type allows for and if appropriate devise schemes or plans to find the culprit who carried out the act;) .

Valek-Dark

09-03-2005, 15:08

Every week before the Arena I get part of my equipment stolen, but I'm starting to get used to it and my problem is that I'm such a softy that even when I find out who it was I end up forgiving that person... but I always say this in the end: "if you need gold just ask!".

First week was a shield, second a helm and third time my potions. I am not sure but maybe you can explain it to me, if pick pocketing is random because if it wasn't they would just aim for my sword I bet.

I still don't think it makes much sense to steal from others just before an organized event though, since it can ruin the fun of others, especially when there are guards inside the inn (not that they move or look around...). In any case, I guess they are just trying to role-play their respective thugs...

And on a side note: Please wyrmwrath, drop the caltrop event, forget about it completely. I apologize, don't even know why I even mentioned it here and I will certainly never do it again, next time, if there ever is one I will keep my mouth SHUT! Now please... I think it's time we both forget about it and bury the hatchet once and for all. Time for peace mate... :)

Danae

09-03-2005, 15:23

Personally, I hate it when someone steals items from me. They're mine, so you should keep your fingers off them, unless I give them away, sell them, or drop them. Some items have a whole history behind them, are DM or event granted/related, or are just very hard to obtain. It is extremely annoying when just any rogue with a few points in PP can snatch them out of your inventory. I'm sure those people wouldn't like it at all when the same would happen to their character's belongings.

Then people could throw in: "Buff you spot skill and it won't happen". that is however turning things upside down. First off, true pickpockets work in groups of two of three, they don't sneak up on you invisibly (or hidden and being invisible as a result) and steal multiple things from several people in one place. If a thief really can RP picking pockets that well he brings along one or two companions in order to really 'play' stealing items, we can talk again, but until then I find the pick pocket skill a really offensive and lame player skill.

I have no problems with sniffing away gold or potions, as those are items which can be collected again without a lot of trouble.

I completely support Eddie's idea about making it mandatory to offer stolen items back to the victim for a fee. That fee can be discussed between the two players themself.

SNarfel

09-03-2005, 15:38

How would you enforce giving items back if the PP went unnoticed?

I'm no graet fan of pickpockets but just see this as being very difficult to impliment.

Lorien

09-03-2005, 16:26

I disagree with that, often you don't notice somthing is missing for quite some time - particularly if its somthing you don't use very often. And there is nothing that says anyone has to admit to stealing somthing - especially if they weren't detected at the time - the use of Tells to negotiate a return of item is fine, but its not the channel for theft accusations and the like. If you discover somthing is missing and didn't catch the thief you RP finding it, not start making accusations in the Tell channel.

SNarfel

09-03-2005, 16:32

I suppose stolen items is just not that big a deal for me...

I certainly wouldnt object if the rule was changed but nor do I have any issue with it as it stands.

DM_Aule

09-03-2005, 17:14

Personally, I think the pickpocket skill is one of the defining trates of an (evil) rogue, and part of what makes the class fun to play. Yes, we realise that when good items are stolen (what is stolen is chosen randomly, by the way), it can be quite an impact. I have seen rogues on this server RP giving what they believed were vital items back to the victim of the theft; they deserve respect.

I do not believe a rule of having to give back everything you steal is sensible. But then, I believe in common sense. That may be my weakness. Common sense should tell the thief whether the item is vital or not. If it is, RP giving the victim a chance to recover it. As I understand it, that's what thromnombulax's friend tried to do.

@Eddie: "If something has been stolen, even if you didn't detect it, you still should have a pretty good idea who it was, or at least can single out two or three persons." I strongly object to that statement. While you as the player may have a good idea of who it was, your character would NOT. That's why the char didn't detect the pickpocket. Acting as if it's clear who stole it is very, very bad practice IMO. Looking around for it, asking if anyone has seen an item you misplaced, may be the opportunity the thief is looking for to give you back the item -- for a reward.

Perhaps I should stop thinking common sense can make rules unnecessary... I'd really like to believe it, though. *sighs*

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 17:30

The maximum coin pick i have seen has been around 35/40 gp even when the mark is carrying thousands (some of us have practiced on each other).. also raw meat/cooked meat gets picked pretty often .. the valuable items pick is rare and is just a lucky pick ...Also, sometimes it is hard to know what you've picked unless you pop to inventory to see ... the message on screen will say you successfully picked ,for instance a ******* sword; only by examining the item further (eye icon it in your inventory) do you discover that it is actually a "damned drinker"
The only time you can make a pick is if a PC is relatively inert or walking .. and be honest peeps how many of us walk absolutely everywhere *all* the time... sat at the inn/standing at the bar is the best time both in terms of mechanics and RP (as mentioned, the busy hustle and bustle of an inn is distracting)
In the Arena itself as i said my PP capable char asked a DM ages ago was told it may disrupt the event and so refrains from doing it there, as i hope others would but this is not a hard and fast rule; do any PP capable characters practice their craft in the arena? I think we should be told :)
If a "personal" item is stolen or a quest item (crumpled note, Wight skull or whatever)i think most of us offer it back ... i know my friend and i do unless we feel some great wrong has been done against our characters by the mark, in which case the item becomes coin (and has been bought by associates/friends of the original mark, presumably to return to them)
Return of "valuable" items doesnt or maybe shouldnt need enforcing , as its something we generally do anyway; its a kind of code of conduct, although I'm sure i've heard a saying somewhere that "the problem with common sense is that it just isn't all that common" *sighs along with Aule*
I must say i'm interested in how the Good-aligned pickpockets justify stealing when "liberating" items ....even PP-ing known evils seems dodgy (two wrongs dont maketh a right, as they say)
Good discussion though so far :)

Argon Balros

09-03-2005, 17:50

thromnombulax
never in this thread have i passed any judgement upon anyone!
i set up this thread to get peoples opinons upon pickpocketing as of yet i've not really posted any of my own really.

yes the item was stolen inside the tavern however if i was to kill her to get the item back i would have to attacked her immediatly as she walked out just after taking it.

i started this thread because the situation did not seem like a good one to me and i would like to know how to handle similar situations in future.

i'm not saying anyone was wrong or right in this situation. the fact she had to go afk explains a fair amount of what went wrong.

DM_Olórin

09-03-2005, 17:57

personally i see thievery as a more chaotic than evil act. It leaves no room for the lovable rogue if he is a black hearted villan. :)However, chaotic alignment shifts seem to be no deterrant whatsoever to many non-rogues who take chaotic alignments in order to act irresponsibly with their characters. Im sure there ae many that have perfectly justifiable RP reasons for chaotic alignments but there are a great many that dont. NWN preferrs Chaotic Good by default but frankly the majority of people would be Neutral Good i think. Otherwise the place would be over run with anarchists. It isnt.

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 18:00

Argon ,me old mate; if i've posted anything that's upset you i'm sorry it was not my intention; as a player i hold you in quite high regard, as i'm sure you already know, and i don't mind posting this regard for the world to see.... so i have :)

Also, i have nothing against fighter/weapon masters.. some of my characters' staunchest allies are such and Khazaldor for sure wouldn't be where he is today without such; that was simply the first thing that popped to mind. So to all fighter/weaponmasters out there... watch your back:) err ahh no i meant .. no, stop *arghhhh*:rolling:

Argon Balros

09-03-2005, 18:21

i can see how it is a sore area for a rogue to seem to have one of his strengths critised, but i hope you know now i'm not critising :)

clone number 3

09-03-2005, 18:34

I personally think pick pocketing should be allowed wherever the sneaky little buggers can get away with it! Though god help them if I catch them at it!

I don't think we should restrict the practice to non-pvp areas, as in reality most pick pocketing would take place in an urban environment.

As in the real world the law abiding amongst us don't get to choose when a little scroat will nick our television. :frown:

thromnombulax

09-03-2005, 18:35

*shakes Argons hand and gives him a friendly pat on the shoulder*

Cheers for response Olorin ... yeah Chaotics probably would (damn them) and PP gives them something to do when they arent robbing tombs:)

Argon Balros

09-03-2005, 18:40

*shakes hand back and smiles*

Ogomis

09-03-2005, 21:18

ok my two pennies worth :)

Throm told me of the request for no PPing at the arena and i have to agree that it does disrupt the event so i dont do it.. even though i still get PPed... *shrugs*

We all take the risk of getting caught when we PP and having the living daylights bashed out of us, but, for me at least, thats part of the fun.

We have worked as a team on occassion, one of us distracting the mark while another PP's and another keeps an eye out in case of trouble.. and another.. and another.. ah well there are hundreds of us :).. *hears the gasps of horror*

We cant PP in Tharbad unless in the Inn or a shop.. the game just wont let us.. honest :)

As far as giving items back, I'm sorry, but i have to ask why?
Maybe this would happen in a "perfect world" but this is not a perfect world.. and if it was.. there wouldnt be any rogues.. would there?

If i had a rare or valuable item stolen from my Character and the Thief got clean away with it.. then thats my characters fault for not having his wits about him... life goes on, gutted i would be but my characters dont rely on items in any way to improve RP or PVP or bash monsters/npc's with.

If, however, i caught the Cur mid PP then they know the risk they take and the price they could pay ;P

As i said just my two pennies worth... I hope no one takes offence.. And please.. remember to wear you purses hung loosley from your belts ;P

thromnombulax

10-03-2005, 18:08

Heh i reckon its just *me* that's too soft with regards to returning items... i would hate to think a fellow player was genuinely in RL upset over my actions (unless i didnt like them ;p) and seek a valid RP reason to return such (Reagal the guard has helped out on a few occasions .. "apprehending a villain" and being rewarded for the return of items). Some players have indicated in posts here or tells in game that, if in practicing my characters skills he gains an item of value they do not wish it back (or at least will not miss it too much), and i am happy to oblige these noble players in that regard :)

Argon Balros

10-03-2005, 18:11

i would be more than happy to pay a reward for an item i use as long as i do suspect the person who found of being the same one who took it.

thromnombulax

10-03-2005, 18:25

Perhaps we could get a post up .. which players would like items returned and which dont care; that may help alleviate any potential ill feelings.
We can infer any who dont post will not miss any items and will have no excuse to run screaming when they notice something is missing:)
*buhahahahahahhaha(cough)hahahahhaha*

Argon Balros

10-03-2005, 18:33

sounds fare

i miss it when someone takes me stuff so please runaway and put a disguise on and say someone droped it as they ran away and i will be very pleased to reward that kind person

SNarfel

10-03-2005, 19:45

I dont think there is realy a need for that Throm, the situation (as I read it) which arose between yours and Argon's characters was purley due to an afk at a critical point which messed things up for you guys.

If not for the afk it seems you would have rp'd a mutualy equitable resolution.

thromnombulax

10-03-2005, 20:50

*cough* eh?

Aye, but i thought the thread was started to gain peeps views on the whole issue of pickpocketing :)

The argon and me debate was kinda over sommat else (me incorrectly elucidating coherently what i wrote) i think ... hmmm .. now im confusded...more Beer!!!

:E

SNarfel

10-03-2005, 20:56

aah, true, true.. my bad..

However although not averse to your suggestion I still dont see the need for it if the current rules and protcols are followed.

Definetly wouldnt object though;)

morez

11-03-2005, 02:32

Can't understand a bloody word you are saying. Don't post when you think you are drunk. - Kev

Azmar

11-03-2005, 12:22

I say this,

If you are a high lvl Thief and you steal from a low lvl character, there is no challenge...if you get caught the low lvl character has no option except roleplay to detain the culprit (if they are given the opportunity), I know only a few theives that would go along with that.

If you PP from a high lvl character and get away with it, fine I say, up to the thief what he does, however if they get caught, then it should be treated like a PVP event.
The only problem with this is that is on a failure most thieves start legging it in the opposite direction, very little time for RP if you ask me....reality I suppose.

An example here:

Mallick the Rhyming Sorcerer notices a a pickpocket attempt about his person, he sees a figure "you know who you are" *smiles* sneaking off some distance away, now I have to think what I would do as Mallick? Personally, ripping the cuplrit to shreads seems a good idea, not possible with Mallick though. It also took me a while to think of a rhyme " A thief I say, don't run away"....best I could think of. I don't think that would wash with most hardened thieves.

Options

Engage and turn the cuplrit to stone, fry etc..lots of spells to choose from, death ones may be a bit overkill as a few characters are about engaging in idle chit chat. My point is, if Mallick started casting spells at a character some distance away now, people would think he had lost it. Running after the thief would not seem right for a wizard, we are intelligent, but physically weak characters are we not?

I suppose Mallick could have wandered to Tharbad, Bree etc and reported the thief, bearing in mind that he did not know this mans name, a good description would have to suffice.
Maybe some more court sessions should be RP'd in Tharbad?

If the thief accepts the message literally that they have been "caught" and roleplay accordingly, without running off?

just a thought.

DM_Kev

11-03-2005, 14:17

I like your idea Azmar :)

We are looking at ideas now, including warrants for the capture of thieves to be brought to a trial. Brings in more roleplay but we need to find a way for this process to compel a potentially captured theif to go to their trial or agree to capture.

Argon Balros

11-03-2005, 14:25

just an idea but would it be possible to make an item called shakels that when succesfully used reduces the target movement speed to half walking speed and stops them from taking any ofensive action, their would have to be a strenght and dex check of some sought when the shackels are applied and perhaps it should only be possible to apply them whislt the target is knocked down or amke it an item rerstrited to hobbit sherifs and dundain rangers.

wyrmwrath

11-03-2005, 14:26

I am aware of a server with a bounty system and other cool scripting, if your interested ill direct you to it to investidate Kev.

thromnombulax

11-03-2005, 17:24

I wish more players had your patience Azmar:)
Unfortunately, most reactions to a spotted pick are the quick death of the thief concerned; there is simply no time to RP anything but *bleeds a lot* as we lie dead on the ground, so i think most of us have taken to running as soon as the AI says "your pp attempt has been spotted". Even non-chaotics attack us immediately (ask around amongst the Good-aligned Sorceror characters) the attempt is detected. Never once yet has anyone said "ohh you poor thing i will enlighten you and try to help you change your ways" that i have encountered (excepting maybe silverleaf).
We are even attacked for successful picks "you were too close to me i know what you are doing" so "months of conditioning have taught us to flee first". Any additional guidelines to promote RP with unsuccessful picks will be more than welcome :)
With regards picking low levels .. unfortunately its impossible to tell if someone is level 9 or level 1 or level 18 (isnt it?), but usually a pick returns raw meat/cooked meat which lets face it isnt going to break the bank (and which i for one usually deposit nearby or in the barrel in the kitchen in the greyflood, and maybe send a tell)
You wont have to compel us to be brought to trial .. it sounds like fun Kev :)
At the end of the day, all other characters need do is buy a few ranks in [CENSORED] skill, eh ;-)

Argon Balros

11-03-2005, 17:42

its kinda what came forst chicken or egg situation (btw the egg did :) )

theifs get imediatly attacked so they don't run off and theifs run off so they don't get imediately attacked

thromnombulax

11-03-2005, 17:43

no it were the chicken :)

But, in essence Argon, yeah, thats right

Argon Balros

11-03-2005, 18:02

dinosaurs had eggs i win! , eggs came first :)

wyrmwrath

11-03-2005, 18:42

Id say that is a fair assesment of the common reaction. Yet on the occurance of a pruse snatching or pick pocketing happens to us (in real life) is our first reaction "Now that poor soul is in dire need obviously, I will let him just have what he took after a good long conversation about right and wrong." OR "HEY! THats my stuff!"

Im kinda hard core. I say if the thief grabs it and gets away with it isnt caught/noticed)its his. If he/she is noticed/caught then its a matter of how the PC victimised should react based on alignment and back ground, and the same for the thief. Two evil PCs might end up killing each other over it with few words, while a more Ghandi-esque god PC is likely to talk the ofender to death...err submission. Heck I could see the thief giving the item back just to avoid a leangthy sermon.

The only thing I see as a bit unusual is ransoming the item back to the owner. That just screams stolern goods. Sell it to a merchent and see that the previous owner hears that a similar item was seen for sale and at what merchent. That wat the Pc doesnt need to lose the item and the thief get the coin, which is what the skill is really about, without giving away who the culprit is.

thromnombulax

11-03-2005, 19:01

Damn you Argon i fell right into that one you cur:) (but i guess that means the dinosaur had to "get laid" to lay the egg ;p )

Wyrmwrath; also in RL we dont beat the perp to a pulp either eh:)
I respect your views on stolen items and you also sent me tells in game to say keep anything my character steals to sell for coin, but also i can see why some players wouldnt want that or it may be inappropriate; hence the "persona" shifts (guardsman, merchant etc) to return the goods to their rightful owner that Khaz uses. An item which we sell to a fence for 5k may cost 30k + to buy back .. so sometimes the greedy rogue may be inclined to ask around for a higher price than an NPC may give; especially when some PC's are walking around with over 100k in coin or stacks of gems *cough* :)

wyrmwrath

11-03-2005, 20:08

we...dont? I live in Detroit...even the cops beat the perps here.
:)

Teado Truesoul

11-03-2005, 23:58

I feel that PPing should be allowed depending on the circumstances, i.e the Arena on Tues. If this event is 'in-game' then stealing should be allowed. If this event is ruled to be 'out-of-game' then stealing should not be allowed for an hour before and after the event.

My thoughts to any who care

T

SNarfel

12-03-2005, 06:59

I'm not sure how to go about doing it but may be a poll should be set up to find if Arena event should be "in game" or "outgame".

From a previous post it seems the DM's are pondering this conunderum and it may be usefull for them to have an idea of the Forum populacec opinion.:)

thromnombulax

12-03-2005, 09:48

Somebody does it in the Arena, as Ogomis says, 'cos thats when *we* get picked, even though *we* do not practice our art there. Before/after the event is fair game IMO; more peeps to pick but more chance of getting spotted doing it. By spotted i mean by the mark, not another player sending a tell to their mate saying "xxxxxxx just bumped into you 3 times .. can you not see them?" ;p
Characters' "real names" tend to get used in the Arena, no matter who they are "disguised" as, so i already view this aspect of the Arena as out of game knowledge, even though the event itself is discussed in char.

thromnombulax

12-03-2005, 10:31

At the end of the day, pickpockets have invested a LOT of skill points in this skill. It is up to potential marks to buy ranks in its "counter-skill" i reckon, if they are *that* concerned about it :D

SNarfel

12-03-2005, 18:52

I agree with both your posts.... ultimately if the "disguised" characters are doing well outside the Arena at hiding thier identity, may be they should also try and use that alias in the Arena by "telling" the DM concerned their alias name.

Obviously if too many people start having alias's this is going to become a problem.

However using aliases In my opinion should be kept to a minimum and the aliase chracter's allies need to take more care in not using the real name. On at least one occasion Frain has heard Khaz's real "character" name being used by his allies, could be a problem for poor Khaz's secret.

At least one other player is using an alias also, too many could become a problem.

Finally aliases if they start becoming associated with certain behaviour will default to it from the populations point of view.

Even if the population dont know the individuals face they will still be able to associate them with thier chosen behaviour, unless they themselves always stay in the shadows and get others to do thier dirty work (or goody work) for them. Something to keep in mind:naughty:

thromnombulax

12-03-2005, 20:09

There was a thread started a while ago with regards to disguises Snarfel .. i cant find it anymore but it may make an innerstin read for ya if you can; it kinda covered a similar subject (changed armour/colours/faces etc). My char has suffered since January with being called by its real name in the arena, regardless of how the toon appeared; it's too much to expect the dm at the arena to remember a stream of aliases associated with a char when they're trying to sort out all them fights maybe mate, at least ive never felt the urge to mention it as most peeps play along by now.... and are you sure frain heard the char name and not just a "Khazzz" from Khief or someone, and *you've* filled in the blanks .... or the name was mentioned and you saw the floaty? i think a dm-driven Saruman was the last person to say "khazaldor" and that were a few weeks ago, but of course i may be wrong:) Not that it matters since the char recently got some new armour so will be unrecognisable in it again now. (it still has the strings and leather to change its voice and a slightly higher bluff skill now)
found it :)

http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=305181&highlight=fear+and+loathing+with+disguises