Goblins as PC class?

[morez]

As there are some orc/goblin heads for the gnomes too..it might be possible to play an evil goblin (with the gnome appearance) so a smaller orc but maybe more based on rogue/dex abilities?

This just could be an option?

If you agree with me this should be involved into the Manual...
if not it should eb mentioned..

btw.: great MANUAL

[SNarfel]

Although my tolkien lore aint that graet.. personnaly I think thats a good suggestion.. Goblin rogues should still have int restrictions though as I dont think they are very intelligent.. as compared to other races.

[morez]

there is the problem cause the game considers them as gnomes so they have +2 constitution but -2 strength
i personally would rather play a halfling with an orc head but there arent any...

the intelligenc problem could be solved easily like not taking more than int 10....

[Argon Balros]

goblins don't exist in tolkiens works


i know theres a few in utt2 but don't have em as characters

if you like have stunted orcs.

[Guyror]

I think they do exist.

'Those creatures that Men now name goblins are dwellers in darkness who were spawned for evil purposes. In earlier days they were called ORCS. Black, blooded, red-eyed and hateful in nature are these Goblin people, and though they are now reduced to being commited to minor deeds of mischief, they were once a race bent on vast plans of terrible tyranny'

A Tolkien Bestiary - David Day

[Silverleaf]

You also don't have to use an orc head. There's a goblin mask you can craft onto a helmet, so perhaps if you set your subrace as "Goblin," there could be a neat little script that puts a goblin mask into your inventory, and maybe even gives you some decreased intelligence.

[thromnombulax]

I always thought Tolkiens' goblins were orcs too, Guyror and that the bigger breeds came later (uruk and such). so orcs and goblins refer to the same basic creature in the same way that the terms hobbit and halfling both refer to errr hobbits :)

In The Hobbit, Bolg son of Azog is referred to as a "Goblin" ... "The Goblins are upon you! Bolg of the North is coming, O Dain! whose father you slew in Moria...." . Goblins is Orcs :)

[Aarak]

I have/had a Character 'Guzak', which was created using the Gnome body type with a goblin head. He is a Ranger (or Orc blood scout as I put in his sub-race) and is of the type of smaller Orc that attempted to track Frodo and Sam through Mordor. Not sure if he will still be legal though as I think his Int is 12.

I recon there should be more of the smaller Orc types around as they seem to be more numerous than the Uruks in LOTR.

[DM_Kev]

Goblins are small Orcs in tolkiens work.

[thromnombulax]

The're only `smaller` when compared to Uruks i think mate; they arent small like the "Goblin Monster Toons" in game, they're normal sized. At least i never pictured 'em as been small, i always pictured em as being orc sized! Needs DM input here really eh

[SNarfel]

The "image" I always had of tolkien goblins was as smaller than humans...
Dont know if Tolkien ever described them himself... but if they rode worgs then they couldn't be that big..

Admitadly worgs are big.... but still smaller than war horses I would say.

Still, I think they would be bigger than the goblins as depicted in NWN.

[Aarak]

From memory - wasn't the Orc who struck Frodo with a spear in Moria described as 'as large as a man' or something like that? Thus implying that most Orcs/goblins are smaller than men. Could be wrong on this as its a good few years since I read the books. Always had the picture in my head that Orcs are shorter than Humans, though I agree not as small as the NWN midgets.

[SNarfel]

Was that an orc?.. or a type of troll?

[Aarak]

Sure it was an Orc, the troll was forcing the door when the Fellowship fled after wedging the door shut with broken blades. Only in the Film do they fight a Troll.

[Silverleaf]

*opens up the Fellowship of the Ring movie*

It's not an orc. It's a "cave troll," most likely some kind of Olog-Hai.

Correction: That's no Olog. Just a massive ugly beast.

[Aarak]

Yeh in the Film its a Troll, in the book I am pretty sure its an Orc. In the book Frodo stabs the Troll in the foot when it's trying to force open the door.

[thromnombulax]

Small orcs is good .. can we torture them like we torture hobbits :)
*cough*

[SNarfel]

torturing orcs may satisfy you more... hobbits are far more hardier and resilient then they look. So you will get more squeeling and begging from the orcs;)

and darn it... get something for that cough!!!!

[thromnombulax]

More cigarettes sorted the cough ty :)

Beren killed a fair few Wolves in his time, though; "...and the Orc that rode thereon..." (Lost Tales2 note 14 to The Tale Of Tinuviel, though which version of that tale i have no idea). The terms Orc and Goblin tend to be used as equivalents "...though sometimes apparantly distinguished, (The Return Of The Shadow, note 35 to "the ring goes south") so that leaves room for us to see goblins as small orcs; the shorter ones will have been bred fer wolf riding maybe

If the server were up i could stop looking these things up :)

[DM_Olórin]

The troll in the FOTR movie is a Cave Troll not an Olog-hai, although Olog means troll in black speech. I reckon that goblins as degenerate stunted orcs is pretty reasonable, they were supposed to vary in size from the wretched creatures in the Hobbit at Goblin Gate, to the great Black Uruks of Mordor, and the Olog-hai trollbloods, with Moria orcs and Uruk-hai somewhere in between (size wise that is).

I expect that Goblin rogues would be more than acceptable. Hopefully Kev will post a decision on this, and we can ammend the Character doc accordingly.

[DM_Kev]

I would say yes :)

Give us time and we will make that official. However, feel free to create a 'goblin' subrace of orc and take rogue, though persoanlly I wouldn't jack the intelligence too high - just enough to get the core rogue skills.

[Silverleaf]

For goblin races, I would suggest..

Rogue
Bard perhaps (Battle Drummer?)
Fighter
Barbarian

[thromnombulax]

http://tolkien.cro.net/orcs/goblins.html
http://tolkien.slimy.com/tfaq/EnemyMisc.html
http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-70531/Tolkien/orcvsgoblin.htm

A few links i found , for any still interested in this :)

[clone number 3]

Thanks for the link, an interesting read.