View Full Version : Proof Readers Wanted
Hi guys,
I'm looking for a few of you to help me with the updated player manual by proof reading it and helping me identify any mistakes or oversights.
I will ask staff too, but you guys are very good at spotting our oversights and you are the ones who will be reading it afterall.
Just state your interest here and i'll post up a link to the document soon.
Thankyou :)
Mithfindel
03-03-2006, 18:53
Non-native English, and I can't recite the books from memory, but can try to do my best. Though, noteworthy that I know very little about ingame history, so that'd be the weak point and force me to go "by the book".
barneynibbs
03-03-2006, 19:00
I'll help out. I have done a lot of technical writing and software documentation in my time. I have the PDF download of the player manual from the website. Do you have something newer then that you want proofed?
Mithfindel
03-03-2006, 19:01
Barney, as stated elsewhere, Kev's on a project to re-write the manual so that it's up to date. I'd figure that's what this is about.
barneynibbs
03-03-2006, 19:05
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. ;) Thanks.
karakedi
04-03-2006, 01:14
I can help with the proofreading, if you like.
Kyle Morgan
05-03-2006, 02:45
*offers an eye for details*
Thankyou all for your interest. I'll have a draft for you all to see soon.
Offer to help in any way - good editor, and have full Acrobat 7, so can use commenting and markup in it.
Hi all, my thanks for your patience.
This is the updated manuals first draft.
It is not the final copy
I'm expecting to have to add a lot to it, so feel free to suggest additions or further clarification in certain areas. I may also have missed things - again, feel free to mention them.
Post all responses below so i can gather than up and action them.
Thankyou everyone :)
Untold Tales of Tolkien II - Players Manual - First Draft
(http://merpuk.wireplay.co.uk/manual_d1.doc)
DM Curumo
08-03-2006, 17:48
A few points, Harm is mentioned in the time locked spells, then later said to not be timelocked. Needs clarification.
Class restrictions: Clarification on Rogues / Figher type builds. Making sure that not more than light armour being used?
Musical instruments, if they don't give or increase any "ability" then it should say that these are just props.
Kyle Morgan
08-03-2006, 19:18
Very good work done! Only two things i want to point out:
DAMAGE REDUCTION: As you will later notice, all Damage Reductions have been changed to +5/n. This is because we want all reduction properties to be effective. Items are limited to +3 with unique items limited at +4. This guarantees that all damage reduction properties offer protection in all cases.
Some clarification is needed here, as i did not understand at first what the paragraph is talking about. AFAIK there is no item with DR and the paragraph might suggest, that there are items with DR +3/n, unique +4/n. Meant is that there are no weapons available to overcome the spell-given DR. Even this is not true as Ghostly visage gives DR +1/5.
____________________
Little information is given regarding Laiquendis. I propose the following:
excerpt from:
Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/Arda/g/greenelves.html)
Lenwë was an Elf of the Telerin clan, who set out with the Great Journey of the Elves into the West. When his people found their path blocked by the Misty Mountains, he resolved to leave the Journey and instead led his followers south down the Vales of Anduin, and they became known as the Nandor. After many years, Lenwë's son Denethor set out westward once again, and led some part of the Nandor across the Misty Mountains and the Blue, settling at last in the Land of Seven Rivers beneath the Ered Luin; the land called Ossiriand.
Denethor and his followers did not have peace for long. Soon after his return to Middle-earth, before the Noldor had followed him, Morgoth loosed armies of orcs on King Thingol and his allies, Círdan in the west and Denethor in the east. Denethor's Nandor were ill-equipped for warfare, and suffered great hardship in that battle. Denethor himself was slain on Amon Ereb, though the Elves beat back the orcs at last. After that time many of Denethor's people left Ossiriand for the guarded forests of Doriath. Those few that remained took up a secretive existence, camouflaging themselves in green. From that time, they were known as the Green-elves, or Laiquendi in the Elvish tongue.
The hidden people of the Green-elves played little part in history after the First Battle of the Wars of Beleriand. Most significantly, they lent their aid to Beren and Dior (who dwelt on Tol Galen in the far south of their land). After the loss of their ancient ally Thingol at the hands of the Dwarves, they went with Beren to avenge him. Much later, after the deaths of Beren and Lúthien, one of their lords took up the Silmaril that Lúthien had borne, and brought it to Menegroth where Dior now dwelt.
After the end of the First Age, their fate is not clearly known. Much of their land survived the destruction of Beleriand, and as Lindon came under the rule of Gil-galad. Some at least seem to have removed to Eriador, as a note in the Unfinished Tales mentions Green-elves living on the shores of Lake Nenuial during the Second Age. After this, nothing is known of their fate.
misterroboto2
08-03-2006, 19:43
Actually, it's quite possible to pierce +5 damage reduction with a +1 weapon. All you need is bless and aid cast on you as well as a bard song. You see it's overall AB bonus that decides whether the weapon pierces or not. Fortunately, no enemy ever reunited all the conditions above.
DM Curumo
08-03-2006, 19:54
Any recommendations on party size / composition / use of summoned creatures? Level differences?
Mithfindel
08-03-2006, 20:50
As far as I can see, the spell Bless Weapon (Paladin 1st level) has been changed to 2d6 Divine vs. Undead to 1d6 Divine vs. Undead. This change is not mentioned in the list of spell modifications.
Might want to mention the Lore requirement for Quenya (Lore 15 or maximum attainable at the level the character is, whichever is lower) in conjunction with Noldor.
Those were the things I noticed at a glance. A few days, and I can give it a more careful read.
misterroboto2
08-03-2006, 21:19
Flame weapon has also been modified. It ddid 1D4+2 for my lvl 8 mage.
barneynibbs
08-03-2006, 21:37
Any recommendations on party size / composition / use of summoned creatures? Level differences?
Taking off on this point, I think there should be a new section devoted to all those juicey little tidbits for new players that are scattered across these boards, but aren't in the guide. Like something on questing -- things like where to find others to quest with, solo vs going with a party, and a short list of beginning quests for each starting location for newbies that need to get used to the world.
I'm sure there is more stuff on these boards that would be appropriate to lift directly into the guide and I will keep my eye out for them.
Looking good. You could consider adding the following:
1 - A section about installation files (with links) including a link for classes.2da
2 - Some comments about Dead Logging in Section 3.1 (death and dying)
3 - Something about taking roughly the same no. of levels in both classes when multiclassing - Section 5 (CURRENT CLASS/FEAT/RACE RESTRICTIONS)
4 - Some comments to the effect that Monks are not that common on ME and that monk items might be hard to come by (i vaguely remember reading something of that sort elsewhere) - Section 5 again.
______
Minor nitpicky things:
1 - Section 1 - Forgotten Realms (caps)
2 - Section 2.1 (3 places) - Could be totally off here but i think dispel should have 1 'l' as opposed to 2 in dispelling
karakedi
09-03-2006, 06:04
I've been through the manuscript but suggested so many changes and made so many comments that I sent the document to DM_Kev directly, with 'track changes' to indicate my proposed alterations. In any event, I agree with most of the comments that have already been made.
barneynibbs
09-03-2006, 14:51
After playing a bit last night, more on crafting and how to freaking grapple. ;)
I think crafting in UTT2 is a pure stroke of genius and I would like to see more on it in the guide so potential players "get it." New players need to be aware of what crafting can do for you in the module and take this into account when creating a character or leveling up. I think increasing crafting skills at level up is also a good way to focusing players on character-building advancement over combat-building advancement.
The grappling thing came up for me because I wanted to test out the ability to climb in the module as outlined in the Guide. I walked up to a hill face and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to initiate the grapple. The current Guide assumes you already know how to do this, so this needs to be spelled out more clearly in the documentation.
Thankyou everyone. I have copied all your comments and e-mails and will be incorporating them into the second draft which I'm working on now. :)
The various tidbits offering good methods of party play and new player practices are scattered all over the forums - I'd appreciate it if these were grouped together in this thread so I can collect them up.
barneynibs - which crafting system are you referring to? The ones that lets you change item appearences is the CEP crafting system. The Anvil based system is our own, but it's not particularly good.
barneynibbs
09-03-2006, 20:56
The various tidbits offering good methods of party play and new player practices are scattered all over the forums - I'd appreciate it if these were grouped together in this thread so I can collect them up.
barneynibs - which crafting system are you referring to? The ones that lets you change item appearences is the CEP crafting system. The Anvil based system is our own, but it's not particularly good.
The one that lets you change the item appearances. I didn't know that was a CEP addition. Still a nifty thing. ;) I haven't seen the Anvil based system in the game yet, so I can't comment on it.
I will start piecing together tidbits and posting them here as I find them.
barneynibbs
09-03-2006, 21:22
The thread titled "Tricky roleplay challenges, and best practices" is a great one for a "Roleplaying Tips & Tricks" section. I'll start cobbling this together into a coherent section by updating this post.
ROLEPLAYING TIPS & TRICKS FROM PLAYERS OF UTT2
UTT2 is a role-playing heavy environment, which can sometimes be a challenge to get used to for new players. The following are a collection of tips and tricks as offered by the players for how to integrate good role-playing into the online gaming experience of UTT2. An underlying theme throughout this issue is the attempt by all of the denizens of UTT2 to mask the actual game mechanics with good, solid role-playing. Ideally, the fact that you are controlling a D&D character in a virtual world should not be apparent and the story that you are taking part in should grow and fill your perception of the experience.
Determining Good and Evil
insert text here
Determining skill levels, ability scores, and approximate level
insert text here
Determining profession or best role in party setting
insert text here
Exiting with grace and style
insert text here
Conveying character through actions, speech, and emoting
insert text here
barneynibbs
09-03-2006, 22:35
doh - can't edit the previous post. As a caveat, anything I post as potential content is subject to as much criticism as people want to heap upon it. ;) There will be a lot of subjectivity in what I post on my understanding and perception of things, and I expect it will need to be edited further to fit completely into UTT2 dogma. I have a thick skin, so don't worry about hurting my feelings. ;)
Determining Good and Evil
For some races, of course, this question is not necessary. There is very little chance in UTT2 of an Elf or Dwarf or Hobbit being Evil in the Tolkien-sense of the word, as is there very little chance of an Orc being Good. There is certainly room for a range of Neutrals in the "Good" races of Middle-Earth, but only very rare exceptions for true evil behavior. That means that the following suggestions tend to work better when meeting other humans then with the non-human races.
Start a conversation and look for clues. Good roleplayers will look for opportunities to drop hints about their character as often as possible - they want you to discover things about their character as much as you want to uncover them. Typically, a lot of time and love has been spent on developing a given character, effort that is wasted if others in the game don't ever find out about the deeper workings of the character. Good roleplayers are exhibitionists at heart - they want you to know their secrets.
ANECDOTE: "I remember Dekharr and Timur trying to figure out if the other was evil in-character. Finally, Timur "accidently" dropped his Dol Guldur Freedom Token, smiled at Dekarr, then slowly walked away. A goody wouldn't recognise the token, but an evil aligned character probably would." (Silverleaf, 09-02-2006)
Asking leading questions in the conversation is a good way to glean information about the other person. Start by asking “so, stranger, what line of business are you in?” followed up with some expression of interest and “have you had the recent good fortune of any illustrious patrons or employers in that type of work?” (or any number of even more clever variations). Similarly, one can suggest an employer (e.g. "well then certainly you aided the Princes of Rivendell with their orcish plight...") and wait for some affirmation or denial. Answers to these types of questions can be very enlightening as to the characters underlying personality and "alignment." (DM_Vaire, 09-02-2006)
Determining an approximate level
For me, talking of how many seasons a person has been on the road or practicing their craft often is a good method which doesnt break rp.
Determining skill level
Talking of the skill in the context of using it perhaps. e.g. "I can lay traps to capture even the largest of beasts and alert of enemies".. would indicate someone very good at trap laying, conversly "I have the dkill to trap my own food, but no more"... this may indicate someone with minimal skill in the task.
Determinig attribute level.
Again, one way I can think of doing this is to decribe a situation ... "I have charmed laddies from Bree to far Harrad" ;). In a lot of cases if the person is good at rp they wont even need to do this, their "actions" will speak volumes. *politely smiles but returns to his drink as if caring little of others*, this indicates that the person is trying to be nice, but perhaps is not likable and the best of company.
barneynibbs
10-03-2006, 16:06
What do you guys think of a section introducing the module to new players? What I am thinking of is something that gives a lot of guidance in what to do to get comfortable with the module and should, hopefully, both answer a lot of the typical newbie questions people have as well as provide a "guided tour" of an area that would help teach a new player how to get along in the module.
I would guess that a typical scenario for a new player is someone who has stumbled across UTT2 because of their interested in Tolkien and Middle-Earth. This type of person is probably going to start with a good character and go exploring the Shire to see how well this particular incarnation of Middle-Earth has recreated Tolkien's vision. So they make a compliant character, read all of the necessary materials in the starting area, and eventually take the portals to the Shire. Now they are standing in Hobbiton and don't know what to do next.
My thought would be to provide these new players with a nearly step-by-step guide on exploring the Shire that would walk them through the basics of getting comfortable with the game mechanics and environment of the world. It would have things like where to go to get food, how to initiate a rest, and interesting NPCs to talk to for "jobs." The last is kind of important because I think that, at least for new players, giving something like the following is very helpful.
"Go talk to Hob Hayward near the Brandywine Bridge. He needs help with a task that will give you a good lay of the land in the Shire. Once you have earned his trust by completing his first task, talk to him - or any of the other Shirrifs - for another job. By the time you are finished helping the Shirrifs out you should be pretty comfortable with where things are located in relation to each other around the Shire. At that point, head back to Hobbiton and talk to Sandyman the Miller."
The instruction could go on into more detail depending on how much you want to lead a new player on into the world. I think ending with the Sandyman quest is probably good enough as this should get the new player to the point of understanding how things work in UTT2 as well as get him/her on the right path for exploring and interacting with the world beyond this point.
I would imagine that a lot of what would go into such a piece is already written down, either in the existing players guide or on these boards, so putting this together should mostly be an exercise in restructuring what already exists. If everyone think is a worthwhile thing to do then I would like to tackle it. ;)
barneynibbs
15-03-2006, 18:51
Here's something I think should definitely be in the new guide, taken from the Neverwinter Grimoire v3.0.0 (Lord Xyphus, 2003). There are several charts in the Grimoire to go along with this text.
Note on How to Craft
The character first needs to create the components required for the item
he wants to create from base materials (wood, leather, metal, feathers,
etc.). This can be done by selecting the Craft Armor or Craft Weapon
option in the material item’s radial menu.
Each item is constructed from two different components (a larger and a
smaller one), that need to be assembled in order to finish the crafting
process.
To assemble the two components, use the craft weapon option in the
smaller component’s radial menu and target the larger component with it.
On a successful Craft Armor/ Weapon skill check, the new item will be
created in the character’s inventory. Note that it is not possible to create
magic items with your crafting skills.
Mithfindel
16-03-2006, 06:24
I am rather up to putting "RTM" instead of that. The basic crafting introduced in Hordes of Underdark is, in most decent publishments where you actually get a manual, introduced there. On my manual, that is pages 51 - 53, though it might be worthy indeed to mention that the enchantment feats (Craft Wand, Scribe Scroll, Make Potion (?)) have no use here due to no applying crafting materials being dropped in loot.
What is custom is the "talk to the anvil" crafting.
barneynibbs
16-03-2006, 14:36
I imagine the majority of people will already know this basic stuff, but not everyone - like myself. ;) Even so, I think it would be worthwhile to have some form of reference handy so a person doesn't have to go hunting it down. Certainly the tables of what materials are needed for specific crafting tasks and an idea of where you can get them in-game should be around somewhere. Maybe the latter half of that statement is more appropriate, especially if you are able to "harvest" the material(s) from the environment instead of finding a merchant to sell them to you (don't know if that is possible at all in UTT2).
Your point about the limitations of crafting over other PWs is a good one and justifies a short section on crafting by itself. And if put in this content you might as well plop in a short bit on crafting as well, along with the charts. ;)
Hmmm, maybe the section should be on a combination of crafting and item customization, not just crafting itself. We have that entire other discussion going on about the use of tokens to move magical properties between items - something I was completely not aware of until I saw it being discussed. That should be covered in the users guide as well.
Things are coming along nicely here, thanks for the contributions.
I especially liked the guide for a characters early stages. I have written such articles in the past but they never went into anything like a manual. I'll cook something up, but I'll try and keep it general so it's suggesting, rather than telling new players what to do.
Anything else?
Second draft is almost ready for you to look over.
Steve-Law
26-03-2006, 10:01
Fighter/Barbarian is disabled, it was decided long ago (I now find out) but was never in the manual. Should be.
Actually, the decision http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/showthread.php?t=303921 says Barbarian can't multiclass with Fighter, but not fighter can't multiclass with barbarian, I assume its the same, so should also be made explicit.
barneynibbs
27-03-2006, 14:41
My class ended last week and I have the next 4 months off, so I will have more in the upcoming weeks, but don't hold back the second draft for review on my account. ;) I can use the second draft to work from as well.
The Frenchman
27-03-2006, 20:49
I'm a noobie and have just gone through this process, and have now read through the 1st draft of the new guide, so I'll try and put some useful ideas and constructive doodahs below. Forgive me if I use myself as an example, I will do so instructively I hope.
1) How noobie is your noobie reading this guide?
As Barneynibbs stated:
> typical scenario for a new player is someone who has stumbled across UTT2 because of their interested in Tolkien and Middle-Earth. <snip> Now they are standing in Hobbiton and don't know what to do next.
I suppose there are various divisions
inexperienced/experienced NWN player
inexperienced/experienced roleplayer
inexperienced/experienced Tolkien fan
I would be inexperienced in the first, rusty in the second, and middling on the third. I'd bought NWN because I was interested in the Aurora toolset (too busy, defeated by that one). Looking for persistent worlds I found UTT2 and fell in love. It took me six months to pluck up the courage to join in though (ok I had a black belt grading in the way but still). There were two reasons for this:
Lack of confidence in NWN playing ability and roleplay typing fear
Fear that it was easy to break a rule, causing upset and wasting of people's time
I think the first is partly dealt with by the guide, and the recommended roleplayers guide to multiplayer NWN, which basically gave me the courage and tools to try. Definitely recommended.
I think this server can appear quite harsh in terms of rules and ways of behaving, especially to a new or inexperienced player, some kind of statement that you are all lovely really, and of where inexperienced people who are a bit afraid of the intro of the Community Rules section can go on the forum to get advice and help might be useful. I very much understand why you do it, I just think it could be explained in a gentler manner, you are scaring the shy.
Some advice on how to advertise for a group and so on would also help. Once the Shire quests are done it can get very lonely very quick. Just stating how it can be done would increase player bravery exponentially.
To summarise the above I think an intro aimed at the three groups I mentionned would be helpful (NWN - Heavy Roleplay Server - Tolkien: What do these mean?)
2) Section Order:To be honest having the magic section at the start is quite scary (I'm not playing a M-U because its scary, too many spells and quickbar slots, and I know from playing D&D I'd die even more often than I do already). I'd suggest ordering the sections as follows
-General intro
-NWN intro and support sources (guides) / Roleplay Intro (guides) / Tolkien intro (web resources) a Middle earth map might be pretty here and kind of useful when you are trying to find Tharbad (Is it North shoot I dunno)
-Creating a Character (always the bit people want to read, the fun bit that starts their imagination going - an age table might be good, only hobbits at the moment)
-Community rules (either before or after character creation section - thou shalt break people in gently but thou shalt make them want to play so much that they WANT to obey the rules)
-Practical NWN difference to other servers.
As you can tell the idea behind the above is to make the guide draw players in more effectively. The server is brilliant and an obvious labour of love, the guide can reflect this. On that note it could be made prettier, with images and nice page side-thingies (I mean, look at your site, that's gorgeous...)
Last idea and I will leave you alone, how about a small short writing competition, maybe of stuff that has actually happened to players to give people and idea of what to look forwards to (In the Praise section, one players' description of a DM taking the form of Treebeard to accompany him round Fangorn is probably the single most influential thing I read that made me want to play).
Anyway enough already. Hope this humble offering is of use.
Loving respect,
Seb Sensei
The Frenchman
28-03-2006, 00:14
Found the tricky roleplay thread. Inspiring.
Gosh.
Must remember to walk.
And stop reading this forum...
Nice and well put suggestions Frenchman, *bows*.
Here it is. Same process before please - feel free to read over, look for things that may need changing/adding/removing and post here.
I have not added the new character starting guide - I plan to make something special regarding this for the final draft.
Player Manual Second Draft (http://merpuk.wireplay.co.uk/manual_d2.doc)
The Frenchman
28-03-2006, 16:54
>First players were clamouring for more rules, then they said there were too many, then the DM's are too harsh. Time and time again the DM's have changed their approach to try to accomodate these views but the server has grown a culture of players (and I know it's not everyone) arguing every single decision that goes against them - not only arguing them but portraying them in such a way on hte forums that it seems like the DM's are bullies who have little better to do than pick on players.
Ghost81
I would like to clarify/retract, partly in view of the above and a large amount of forum reading in the last 48hrs, my comment quoted below:
" I very much understand why you do it, I just think it could be explained in a gentler manner, you are scaring the shy."
I think part of the problem is that when MERPUK is typed into google you get pages from NWN vault with very negative views. With my background in psychology I should be wary of first impressions, but I believe those external threads, and historical problems as outlined by for example Ghost81 above, have coloured my perceptions and made me perhaps more apprehensive than is reasonable. It is however a "marketing" problem for this server which I can offer little in the way of solution to at this stage of my venture into your lovely world.
On a different note I've had a quick scan of the 2nd draft and really like the roleplay tips additions. If I think of something more useful I'll contribute. I stand by the rest of the presentional suggestions above.
Le Froggy
Kyle Morgan
28-03-2006, 18:35
Recently trying to use a resurrection scroll in battle, i got the message, that DC is 20. The manual quotes 15.
-----
Maybe you want to add, that Orcs do not need to cook their food.
Ah yes, something I missed there. Although I pointed out that the difficulty is influenced by different factors, I wan't entirely specific.
If either spell is used in battle, +5 is added to the Difficulty Check (DC).
Raw Meat and Orcs bit added.
Thankyou Kyle Morgan :)
The Frenchman -
It is unfortunate that some of the very few negative comments made about us have influenced your first impressions of us. Of course I (and im sure other players) would like to reassure you that this community offers nothing short of the finest Middle Earth Rolepl;ay experience to be found.
Cutting to the point, I have found over the (almost) three years this project has run for, we have had to make our position as clear as possible in order to offer players a high quality of roleplaying world. In addition to creating the right environment for our intended audience, I have worked hard to create a type of module and game experience that is different to all the others - this is where a lot of the conflict comes from...
- People may expect the game to be just another extension of Forgotten Realms - theme ignorance
- People may expect to be able to play the game however they like regardless of theme
- People do not accept/understand the role of DMs/Admins
- People do not understand the scope of NWN's "modability" and the ways in which it can be changed to create vastly different module types. People are afraid of change and vastly "different from the norm" mods.
Anyway, I won't go on about it too much. I just want to alert you to the fact that there are a lot of misinformed comments about us, some of which are merely spiteful attempts at character assassination and to attempt to discredit our community and/or staff due to legitimate decisions made against them.
On with the comments :)
karakedi
29-03-2006, 17:49
I've taken a quick look at the (improved) second version of the manual and will look more closely later. The main emendation I suggest on first look is in the description of elven categories. Since I don't have my copy of the Silmarillion with me (for those who do, see one of the tables at the end), the following website is clear and as far as I can tell accurate:
http://www.answers.com/topic/elves-middle-earth
Eldar is a term originally used by Orome to refer to all the elves at Cuivienen ('people of the stars'). It was later used to refer to all who left Cuivienen for the West at the bidding of the Valar, including those who did not actually make the crossing of the sea. Thus in fact Sindar, Nandor (including Laiquendi and Sylvan elves) are all Eldar, though they are classed as Moriquendi (dark elves) because they did not see the light of Aman and the Two Trees. Those who made the crossing and saw the light of Valinor are called Calaquendi (light elves). Avari (refusers) are those who never began the journey from Cuivienen.
The Frenchman
29-03-2006, 19:07
Thank you DM Kev, rest assured that the forum, the players and the world have given me a most outrageously positive actual impression, and I've only scratched the surface I'm sure (or maybe kind of stood quite near it).
Not at all. May your experience serve as an example to others that we are making every effort to improve the quality of service on offer and that recent hard work has paid off :)
Ok, any other requests/points to raise about the second draft before I publish the final version?
misterroboto2
08-04-2006, 17:47
I noticed that the spell flaming weapon has been modified to deal 1D4 +1 per 4 spellcaster levels of fire damage. It should be added in the manual IMO.
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