Patch Skills Bug Fix

[DM_Aiwendil]

Greetings,

We have (well okay, blame me!) attempted an update today that will hopefully fix the problems we've been having with skill checks.

I used the longer, but safer, method of editting each individual script that calls the problematic function (45 in all). This means that even if the fix doesn't work, it should not break anything unrelated.

Please help us out and keep an eye out for anything unusual (especially related to skill checks) and report to a DM (well, maybe me).

Thank you for your patience and understanding, and everyone keep their fingers crossed.

[clone number 3]

Cheers for the effort in sorting this out.

:wavey:

[DM_Kev]

A very swift response to the problem. Well done :)

[ghost81]

Beers all round

:beer: :beer: :beer: Oh and one for me :beer:

[DM_Aiwendil]

All indications are that everything is working as it should.

(If I'd known it would be this painless I'd have done it days ago :))

[Eöl]

You mean you edited 45 different scripts manually instead of taking one of the readily-available drop-in single-script-change fixes? Is there any particular reason for that?

[DM_Aiwendil]

I editted 45 scripts to call one "drop in single script" fix. Using an include and a rename of the function call. Yes I did it that way so that I didn't have to touch the core nwscript.nss and it took me hardly any time to do it using mass find/replace (did I say manually?).

[SNarfel]

Either way, glad it’s sorted so quick. Thanks :)

[DM_Olórin]

Aye a hearty congrats and thanks to DM Aiwendil there. All that the patch bug broke now works fine.

Eol: 45? *shakes his head* nay lad. But a very good "guess".

[DM_Aiwendil]

Be fair, he only knows what I've told him :)

[DM_Olórin]

aye aye alright :P


Just to confirm the suspicions of some of us, the Whirlwind Attack feat, always tempramental has been fubar'ed beyond all recognition by the latest patch.

Personally I found it impossible to attack after I had used it once and unable even to change weapons (which would normally unfreeze you) pre-patch. Other combat feats like Improved Expertise wouldnt activate and even a DM Heal (which cancels all effects active on you and efectively resets you to a default state didnt cure the problem.

Its a big hairy bummer as it can be useful if you know when to use it. However, I would recommend that you DO NOT USE IT :(

Sorry about that but it could potentially get you well and truly killed. It is a situation possibly only solvable by re-logging (logging out and coming back in).

*the old man bows and wags an admonitory finger*
Gandalf says: "Prance not nor pirouette like a pixie princess.... if thou knowest what is good for you.... erm... even if thou art a pixie princess..."

[Kyle Morgan]

Have you checked if the improved whirlwind feat is bugged in the same way?

[DM_Aiwendil]

Good question. We'll have to test it.

[Mhyradin]

aye aye alright :P


Just to confirm the suspicions of some of us, the Whirlwind Attack feat, always tempramental has been fubar'ed beyond all recognition by the latest patch.

I have noticed this too and have experimented with it a lot, sometimes it works fine and sometimes it doesn't and I have yet to find anything to suggest what might be the cause *shrugs*

Anyway, big thanks to DM_Aiwendil for sorting the crafting.

[vulpex]

I still think i it the crafted weapons giving headache, my warrior does fine with other weapons but the 0gp one messes him up

[DM_Aiwendil]

I'll give you a nudge next time I'm on and swap them for you see if it helps at all.

[SNarfel]

I will do like wise if I see yer before DM_Aiwendil :)

[deeske]

I dont know if this is related to the Linux bug or if it its bugged at all. But i was stuck today on the hill edge of an area. I tried the grapple to get down but it seemed to fail at all times.
I got it on my head, got stuck in it, tripped and falled etc...
I didnt see a roll being made or if you even see one thats why im not sure if it is bugged.

[DM Curumo]

You need a minimum Dex of I think 18 before you can use the grapple at all.

[deeske]

ah that will be it then

[int19h]

I do not know what the minimum DEX required to use the grapple, but it is certainly not any higher than 16 (as one of my characters who uses it actively has only that much).

[deeske]

And i was also in heavy plate, wich i heared is a reason too.

[blode]

reflex saving throws also have a big part in using the graple, 14 on that i think.

I think also where about on the cliff face affects wether it works or not, some bits i cant get up or down but just a short distance away on the came cliff i can get up and down.

When the roll is made for both dex and reflex you must beat 25 to have a sucessfull graple

[DM_Aiwendil]

Yes, grapples require a certain dex modifier and then a reflex save (and yes, being in the right place) no skill checks are involved so this will not be related to this bug. (It may be yet another bug of 1.67, but I wouldn't panic. I'll try and test it out and let you know.)

[DM_Aiwendil]

I can confirm that grapples are working exactly as they always have. (They are just very hard to use! ;))

(Note I am deliberately not confirming/denying or elaborating on any of the numbers speculated :))

[Tulkas]

grapple dc is either 25 or vey close
reqs are 16 dex after stat bonuses Due to items or spells and you must not wear heavy armor

[DM_Aiwendil]

Spoil sport!

Yes, what Tulkas said. To clarify (if I must), it requires a DEX modifier of +3 (so equip/spells will count) or its an automatic fail with no reflex save. If you have the modifier then you also have to make a Reflex save against a DC of 25 in order to successful secure the grapple and a further 25 DC reflex save to make the climb.

Happy now! :P

[int19h]

By the way, any chance to fix grapple so that climbing down would make somewhat... more sense? (as in, no "you couldn't throw the grapple high enough", and if you slip while climbing, you end up where you were going anyway). Assuming this is possible, anyway...

[DM_Aiwendil]

I don't think there is any way to distinguish "height" with the tile set (technically all the grapple does is move you past an otherwise impassable barrier). I'll add it to my list of investigations but I wouldn't hold out much hope, sorry.

[Silverleaf]

*You hear a whisper in the wind...*

Letoscript... Letoscript... Letoscript.... The possibilities are endless...

[DM_Aiwendil]

Let me quote to you from LetoScript 101

To understand how LetoScript works, consider first what LetoScript is made for: editing GFF and ERF files. Examples of Generic File Format (GFF) are BIC, IFO (e.g., module.ifo, the main set of information about a module), UTC (a creature template), and ARE (an area's definition). Examples of Encapsulating Resources File (ERF) are MOD, HAK, NWM, and ERF. Usually you use LetoScript to edit the BIC files in your servervault, or to edit a MOD your server is running (specifically, the GFF resources inside the MOD).

Again: LetoScript edits files.

LetoScript edits files. The possibilities therefore quite clearly have an end. ;)

I'm sure it is a very nice and very clever thing and I do not mean to degrade it at all. I will look at it anyway (it can probably add crafter name to item description for example, that's the sort of thing it's meant to do) but it is not designed to add functions to the NWN engine such as to tell if a PC is facing tileset terrain higher or lower than their current position. (UTT3 will be able to do that I'd be fairly confident as areas use height maps in NWN2, but not, sadly, in NWN1.)

I will be quite humbly impressed if it can, and I will argue it's inclusion on that basis very strongly, but until you can show me that it can, let's just say it can't. :)

[DM_Aiwendil]

[Deleted, I thought I had a solution, but it will require using waypoints at the top and bottom of each "cliff" so that is highly impractical for the grapple. Back to the drawing board.]

[Mhyradin]

By the way, any chance to fix grapple so that climbing down would make somewhat... more sense? (as in, no "you couldn't throw the grapple high enough", and if you slip while climbing, you end up where you were going anyway). Assuming this is possible, anyway...

I was actually going to make this point myself but didn't in the knowlege that there wasn't a scriptable solution. The fail dialogue could be adjusted to make a bit more sense though. Although I like the idea of grapples I find the way they're currently executed infuriating and therefore simply gave up on them sometime ago.

[DM_Olórin]

the way the grapple works has nothing to do with being at the top or bottom of the elevation. it just seeks out available walkmesh in front (above or below is irrelevant) of the character who is using it and if *use* is successful moves you to it.

If it were possible to detect the height of the walkmesh it could be made more specific, but speaking as someone in the game industry i expect that since it was never an issue in NWN until someone invented a grapple i imagine its just a case of "walkmesh ends here you can walk no further" type collision detection and it would probably work the same whether you had walked into a cliff or were teetering at the brink of one.

If it was height sensitive i expect that Bioware would have made things climbable and included such a skill for nimble characters as Scale Sheer Surface or such, and made it possible to fall into pit traps, a PnP RPG classic :)


ERM - crap i just read back a few posts.... nothing to see here move along move along...

[DM_Aiwendil]

Okay there may be a way to simulate the function we require. It involves placing a temporary object at the target location before grappling checks are made, measuring it's z-axis vector then removing it. This may cause lag and other unforeseen knock-on effects but I will try it out. Can we leave grapples now please (They are on my hit list. :))

[Kyle Morgan]

Little reminder for grapples: They can currently also be used to climb over barricades like the dwarven fortification. (Just for your testing purposes ;))

[DM_Aiwendil]

You can forget that :)

[Kyle Morgan]

Tried to craft a trap out of a skeleton knuckle and no dice-roll was executed.

[DM_Aiwendil]

I should have fixed the trap crafting but think it's waiting for the next update (it's a bigger change as it requires a complete recompile for the whole mod so I thought it could wait). I was hoping you wouldn't notice (Come on! Who crafts traps!? ;))

But I'll get it in as soon as I can (have another fix that should be ready to go in in the next couple of days).

[Kyle Morgan]

I do - and i would do more often if there were some of the necessary components available ;)

Anyways - good to read that it will be fixed soon :)

[clone number 3]

I do - and i would do more often if there were some of the necessary components available ;)



Agreed! Give us more trap components! (and poison while we're at it!)
;)