Welcome to NWN2 At Wireplay!

[DM_Kev]

*Great Fanfare, rows of neatly polished guards*

Welcome, everyone, to our new series of subforums for discussion of all issues relating to NWN2 and our new project, Untold Tales of Tolkien III, the third incarnation of the Middle Earth roleplay world which has changed the way we think and play over Middle Earth Roleplay over the last three years!

Over these three years we have watched the game develop and turn into the engrossing experience one can only dream of. Nothing has ever stood still, with constant improvements and new ideas, the bar of Middle Earth Roleplay has been raised again, and again, to a level which could never have been expected...We did that with UTT2...

Now we are going to do it again....

With UTT2, we promised you (I quote from 2 years ago):"MORE; more of the things that made the game so addictive and exciting". And thats exactly what we want to do again. We are taking the strengths of UTT2 and taking them one step further in UTT3. Areas where we have not done so well are to be brought to the top of the priorities list so that they are right first time.

With the new toolset, we will be creating the great area detail you have come to expect from us. Choose your sub-race, there's so many that you can even choose what type of Orc/Elf/Hobbit/Man/Dwarf you are! Quests in the different regions will become inter-related, creating a campaign series of quests to become engrossed in. The NPCs will become so lifelike that your character builds meaningful relationships with them. The enemies will be intelligent and unrelenting, combat will be fiercely realistic for the setting, from smaller skirmishes to pitched battles. Your actions will have meaning with our revised reputation and ranking systems. Our full itemset will be subject to a dynamic crafting and components system...and theres still more to be told...

The toolset has already been pre-released, though work will not begin in earnest untill the full version is available in 8 days time. In the meantime we are preparing our mountain of plans for implementation.

Untold Tales of Tolkien III is going to raise the bar again, and all of you are invited to join us in this incredible project. So feel free to use these new forums for discussion. The DMs and I will be happy to answer any queries you have.

We are always keen to have more experienced toolset hands on deck. Any former toolset team members are WELCOME to return. Just give me a prod at kevin.balmer@ntlworld.com

Thankyou, comments welcome :)

[SolarisPolar]

Is there anyone with first impressions as regards the usability of NWN-2 for building player-worlds?

The comments I have seen so far range from damning criticism to pure hype.

I have seen the following criticism:

- (1) hardware requirements are significantly greater than for NWN-1, especially as regards CPU power and graphics adapter specs
- (2) graphics demand a lot more storage for outdoor areas, leading to acute concerns from player-world builders
- (3) no counterspelling
- (4) Use of Magic Devices (UMD) skill available as cross-class skill to all classes
- (5) At first sight the changes listed here (http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2GameInfo.list&category_show_all=1) seem to favour powerbuilding (classes are less restricted, assassins get to cast spells, casters get more melee presence etc.)

And then again I have seen positive comments about the graphics quality and several new spells:

Improvements
- D&D 3.5 rules, among which
* several new Wizard spells; (I found a list of spells here: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2GameInfo.Detail&id=78&category_select_id=7)
> Detect Undead (D): Undead revealed on minimap.
> Enlarge Person (T): Gives +2 Str, -2 Dex, -1 to hit, -1 AC, and +3 melee damage.
> Low-Light Vision (T): Party can see in the dark like elves.
> Mirror Image (I): Creates 1d4 + 1/level images of caster that act as decoys.
> Spiderskin (T): Target receives +1, +1/3 levels to AC, poison saves, and Hide skill checks.
> Energy Immunity (A): Grants target immunity to one energy type.
> Mass Hold Person (E): Paralyzes many enemies.
> Greater Heroism (E): Target receives +1/level temporary hit points and +4 to hit, and on saves and skill checks.

* several new Bard spells () (list here http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2GameInfo.Detail&id=55&category_select_id=7)
> Joyful Noise: Ends any silence effect on party.
> Song of Discord: Enemies have a 50% chance of attacking each other.

- skill-point hoarding has been made impossible

- a new skill: Craft Alchemy (Int)
"Craft Alchemy allows you to distil essences (raw magic used in making magical items) and break down magic items into essences. The DC depends upon the complexity of the potion or essence being made or the magical item being broken down. To use this skill, place the appropriate ingredients on an alchemical workbench, then use the mortar and pestle item, targeting the workbench. To distill an item, use the mortar and pestle on the item’s icon."

- several new feats (http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?category_select_id=5&view=NWN2GameInfo.list)
>Feint Int 13; Combat Expertise Can use Bluff to reduce armor class of most enemies.
>Track Mini-map shows nearby enemies.
>Swift and Silent Stealthy When in stealth mode, movement is 75% instead of 50%.
>Nimble Fingers +2 Disarm Devices and Open Locks.

The increased memory requirements (especially for outdoor areas) really seem to be a show-stopper for builders of large player-worlds (unless you can come up with that 8 Gb. 64-bit server). For that reason I have seen people talking on NWN-2 developer fora about raising the ceiling of indoor areas and painting it a sky colour in order to be able to use memory-efficient indoor-type areas to model outdoor areas. Things like walkmeshes also seem to take much more memory, and must be downloaded by the client every time there is a change.

Any comments so far ?

[SolarisPolar]

.

[DM_Aiwendil]

NWN2 is still being "play tested" / assessed for suitability. Expect some announcements/comments fairly soon. *Grumbles that _his_ pre-order copy still hasn't arrived*

Reading some of those links (thank you) and this page is quite interesting. http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2GameInfo.Detail&id=73

The main thing I would comment on is the Dwarf (The concept art looks bang on to me, the actual Dwarf looks no different to a Human/Halfling/Gnome (apart from height I would guess) and come on! That Dwarf has no beard! How dare he show his face!

And what on earth has the Halfling got in his hand? He must have increadible strength to be holding that *enormous* sword in one-hand and still remain vertical!

[blode]

yeh agreed.

also the lycanthrope looks more like a pussy cat standing on its hind legs :S

[Barking_Mad]

Im about a 3rd of the way through the campaign. So far:

Pros:

Visual:
Nice looking graphics and shadows, including shader type deformations 9heat shimmer effect)
Good character detail on clothing
Dynamic clothing visibility (helms, boots, gloves etc)
Normal mapped terrain
Dynamic lighting (NWN1 had it, but not as good)
Higher detail on objects & placeables
Scalable creatures/models

Gameplay:
More advanced targeting, separate targets can be qued individually
Fully controllable henchmen
Adjustable Henchman AI tactics
Letterbox style cutscene dialogues
Facial animation and detail (minor lip syncing)
Persistent combat modes (toggle them on, leave on even after quit combat ready for next encounter)
Extra camera mode "Free camera" true free isometric view.
Good Character/henchmen interaction
Good story development (if a little linear)
Updated D&D ruleset

Modabillity:
Fully customisable UI (Skin, Arrange, Scriptable) ( Clicky (http://www.nwn2wiki.org/GUI) )
More advanced toolset, new look.
(still assessing this area myself)

Cons:

Visual:
Some people (myself included) have had poor frame rates (with everything to minimum i still get 25fps maximum, which is noticeable but bareable, unfortunately that's not constant and it dips frequently to 8-10 fps)
Spell effects are weak, many of them make use of large 2D sprites which are flat looking and some high level spells have virtually no visual. Wail is like a puff of smoke (with the old wail sounds).
No animations for some effects, combat is uninspiring if it wasnt for all the explosions from flaming items.

Gameplay:
Targeting is clunky and its difficult to get good feedback on enemy health without pausing and targeting to inspect the hp.
The radial wheel has been replaced with a 2D menu
The right click menu is slow and clunky to use
Voice commands and emotes are few and not accessible by keyboard shortcuts or quickslots
Emote animations look daft
No mounts yet
Character sheet fails to give you the information as efficiently (you have to wade through menus and collapsible context menus to find some info), but at least thats changeable.
Camera is difficult to control well
Pausing frequently to compensate for bad AI is a must, mostly because you cant use the voice commands (halt etc)

Modabillity:
Looks very promising for SP module builders, less so for MP mods and PW. Im still looking over the tools and what not, so ill have to come back to this.

Package:
The UK/EU game doesn't ship with the full manual, we get a paper piece of crap.

Just to illustrate the spells:

A useful casting ring tells you your AOE spell range before you click to cast:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8771/castingringjk8.jpg

All fire spells use this casting effect:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7577/firecastqb2.jpg

Incendiary Clouds AOE effect:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/4029/incendiarycloudaoeua9.jpg

Vitriolic Sphere spell (casting phase)
http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/3534/vitrioliccastingzv1.jpg

Vitriolic (Impact Phase)
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8036/vitriolicimpacttk5.jpg

Wail (casting)
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7992/wailcastingtg5.jpg

Wail (Impact)
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7016/wailimpactbg7.jpg

notice the use of 2D sprites, one on the floor and one semi circle

Weird (Impact)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6363/wierdimpactdw7.jpg


Not terrible, but not exactly a step forwards. Not that its a problem for a low magic setting, but you kind of expect better dont ya?

[Barking_Mad]

Character Detail example:

Very nice look of shiny armour, a little less nice here because the gamma is different for screenshots than in game.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1587/closeupqh5.jpg

[DM_Kev]

We are assessing NWN2 at the moment to see what it can do for us. Expect a detailed announcement this weekend.

[Barking_Mad]

Muhahah @ Effects editing. I fixed that stupid looking thing!!!!!!:
http://www.aovc12.dsl.pipex.com/Images/NWN2/fixed_prot_align.jpg

Loving this....Gonna have a go at the 3d effects next.

[DM_Kev]

Myself and others, particularly Barking Mad, have been having a good poke around in the NWN2 toolset to see whats on offer to us, and also to investigate the number of negative reports on some of the games features to see if they carry any weight. I've recreated a number of Mirkwood areas, interior and exterior, made a quest and recreated a number of our items. Barking Mad has been looking closely at scripting functionality and the visual effects editor.

What we can report is most pleasing. Areas can be created to an exteremely high level of detail - easily. A middle earth in NWN2 would look incredible. We'd be able to have the correct terrain on the horizon. We can make real mountains and forests! Don't even get me started on how good Minas Tirith will look :) Theres a huge array of things for us to tinker with to make areas even better - dynamic lighting, tinting, and placable scaling and colouring.

We've looked into the comments about downloading walkmeshes and it's not as big as its cracked up to be. The size of these files is dependant on the amount of walkable space, which in an exterior area can be surprisingly low. These files are also compressed to a fraction of the full size, so downloading isn't an issue considering the size of files we are already accustomed to pulling to play NWN1.

Can the server handle it? This has been the big question asked of us and I'm happy to report, it can. It will recieve an upgrade at some point and the way we handle the module will also be responsible for its ability to run things. NWN2 allows a module to be broken into directories of sub-modules. We will be utilising this and linking modules together accordingly, pending further research.

So it is now official - UTT3 will take the form of a NWN2 module. However, as the future of a new game like this is always unknown, we will be taking our time with the production of UTT3. Therefore, I will be unable to give a initial completion date for the time being, but I will give you one when im confident we can deliver on it. Production has begun and will take place for many months to come to deliver the best middle earth nwn experience yet. Expect the NWN2 forum to become more populated with topics as we progress.

What of UTT2?
The excellent UTT2 will be running for many, many months to come and we hope you all continue to play here. Should it still prove to have a regular player base, come UTT3 release day, I will do my best to keep a UTT2 server running. The staff are being given free reign over what they want to work on - some may work soley on UTT2 or UTT3, some may choose to do both (depends on their preferences and actual ability to work/run the tools). Whatever the staff chose, I hope you will continue to support them.

Updates, improvements and events for UTT2 will, of course, continue as they have always done.

Thankyou.

[morez]

...
Don't even get me started on how good Minas Tirith will look :)
...

As I already posted in the UTT3 debate thread: I tryout Minas Tirith area i created in the first few days with the prerelease toolset (http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/222/whitecitynw0.png)

Though this area (32x32) maybe would eb unplayable I'm sure our devs here will create something that will look MUCH BETTER and still be playable! I am very excited about that eyecandy that will be in UTT3

[DM_Kev]

Heh, we wont be making any areas that size, no wonder it was unplayable. I'm sure we will be able to make something that works for everyone though.

[DM_Olórin]

As I already posted in the UTT3 debate thread: I tryout Minas Tirith area i created in the first few days with the prerelease toolset (http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/222/whitecitynw0.png)

Though this area (32x32) maybe would eb unplayable I'm sure our devs here will create something that will look MUCH BETTER and still be playable! I am very excited about that eyecandy that will be in UTT3

a city area that size would be a big impact on performance, but a damn fine effort morez old mate! ;)

[DM_Kev]

*nods* Area size wise, it will melt the server, but we can still get that level of detail in, using a few tricks ;)

[Barking_Mad]

I am considering making a MT/White City tileset, with the level of detail achievable in NWN2 it would be well worth the effort. At the moment I'm still pulling the files apart.

I would appreciate any links to resources regarding artwork for references anybody can provide.

[morez]

I am considering making a MT/White City tileset, with the level of detail achievable in NWN2 it would be well worth the effort. At the moment I'm still pulling the files apart.

I would appreciate any links to resources regarding artwork for references anybody can provide.

Besides the movie's artwork, which I especially like how they build Minas Tirith, I found that picture: http://stonia.ttu.ee/gallery/tolk-lee36.jpg

When I was trying to build up a MT with the toolset, i figured out a lack of towers, and apprpriate walls. Nothing really white, though never underestimate the power of lightning.

I just like the idea of beeing able to see the whole city from far. I just used a 32x32 area to get all 7 rings in one walkable area.
I had a look at this area with of MT in the toolset again, and I figured out, that actually you only should need a 8x4 area plus these 4 tiles borders at each side, to get the whole city into it, if you seperate the area into some areas and have several transitions. While playing around with the walkmesh cutter and environmental objects the actual walkable area would decrease very much. So I'm sure you will be able to build up a decent MT that will appear as a whole from the distance.

BTW: thanks for compliment old pilgrim mate.

[SIave]

Ok Just bought NWN2 now how do i get online?

and is there a wireplay online game out there yet?

[Niklas66]

Ok Just bought NWN2 now how do i get online?

and is there a wireplay online game out there yet?

not yet, so keep your space pants on :jester: