tlk/2da: Races and Subraces

[DM_Kev]

These are now in production now. Testing has revealed that changes to races, subraces, feats, classes, etc do indeed load for character creation and all subsequent levelups.

I'm seeking your help in some information gathering. Ideally, names of Middle Earth themed subraces and materials, but you are welcome to list anything you think would make great custom content. If you are able to include a description with the name, that would be even better.

It may read like an odd request, but this is actually a very useful one. I wont go into specifics here, but all the names and descriptions are to be entered into the utt3.tlk file, a sort of database of Middle Earth things really. Each name or description entered will be assigned a number which can be used to link them to 2da files - it is these files which are responsible for what you see on your ingame character generation menus, feat menus, etc.

I'm not saying that everything listed here will be used fully, that would be a big lie on my part. But, all names and descriptions posted here will go into the utt3.tlk file - whether or not they are actually referenced in the game will be down to design and requirements considerations. If they are not used, then at least we have a record of them in the event of us actually using them later on. Though it should be known I intend to customise the character selection menus considerably (and already have in some respects).

A few names to avoid as i've already implemented them (yep, these subraces are in)

Dwarf - Longbeard
Dwarf - Firebeard
Dwarf - Broadbeam
Elf - Noldor
Elf - Sindar
Elf - Silvan
Elf - Nandor
Orc - Goblin
Orc - Common
Orc - Uruk

Im not of the mind to add more Orc subraces at the moment, but additional elves and dwarves can go in. Ideally right now, we need human and hobbit subraces.

You may specify some starting feats and ability adjustments if you wish for subraces. Remember that im looking for anything Middle Earth to add as custom content - materials, for one.

Thanks

[VeruMontanum]

Just a thought Kev:

We have quite a few active and committed players at the moment who I'm sure will be more than happy to contribute. I'm just wondering if you think its more efficient and effective to "delegate" or get us to "volunteer" to focus on specific areas which we have an interest in ?

Eg Cindi (and Melkor's Chosen) could focus on evil human sub-races, feats etc

I would volunteer to think of some hobbit sub-race feats/ skills etc

I'm sure we could all chip in :)

[DM_Kev]

Whatever suits people best really.

If anyone wants to volunteer to work on specific bits then feel free to do so - make sure you let us know here so people dont tread on each others toes.

[Lorien]

I have (at home not here at work with me) quite an extensive body on the different races/sub-sections of men. It may even be in the Player Support thread (somewhere). I'm quite happy to rejig and post some of that if it would be helpful.

[DM_Kev]

Please do.

Ideally, whats needed is:

Name: E.G Wainrider

Description: Give an overview of the subrace - notable history, appearance, characteristics

Suggested abilities: Keep this general. I'm not seeking to make any new feats at this time other than modifying existing ones by name, requirements, etc. Avoid magic for the time being as im still deciding what to do with it. Mention suggested ability bonuses and penalties and base starting feats.

[DM_Yavanna]

To the elves you could add Avar (pl. Avari). I would guess that they would have some kind of dex and stealth related bonuses, in addition to the enhanced senses all elves get, and possibly a one point reduction in wisdom (to reflect their choice not to follow Orome). To represent a constant outdoor life, they could have a one point enhancement in constitution.

The Avari (refusers) are the elves who chose not to follow the Vala Orome to Valinor from the elven birthplace of Cuivienen. They dwell mostly east of Eriador and are elusive to others. Often solitary or found in small groups, they do not normally establish large, permanent settlements, though tribal camps may be found by the alert and cautious. They are suspicious of strangers, especially non-elves, and so should be approached patiently and in a non-threatening way--if they can be found at all. Physically they are similar to the Silvan and Nandorin elves, though culturally their elven arts are largely focused on harmony with and careful manipulation of the natural world for its betterment. Most influential among them are their druids, who have a set of rituals and practices largely unknown to the Eldar.

Additionally, I suggest that the constitution deficit with which elves normally start is not lore-consistent. Tolkien's elves would have no physical deficiencies. They might instead have later access (or none) to some level 1 feats, such as luck of heroes, to reflect some of the melancholy their long lives can bring.

[Lorien]

I'll crack on with the men this week then, I'll post them ASAP.

[Niklas66]

Human subraces

(Good)
Gondorian
Dúnedain
Rohirrim
Men of Dale
Lake-men
Beornings
Breelander

(Evil)
Dunlending
Black Númenórean
Corsair
Eastlander
Variag
Haradrim


Hobbit subraces

Shire-folk
Bree-hobbit


More at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp - Great site!

[DM_Kev]

DM Yavanna - Elf con issue was the first thing I corrected :)

[DM_Yavanna]

There are also likely to be hobbit-kind to be found near the Anduin. They are probably less materially developed than their western cousins, and they are probably rather few, since almost no one was aware of them. The known hobbit quality of elusiveness is probably well developed among them.

Among the Shire hobbits would be the well-known divisions of Stoor, Harfoot, and Fallowhide. Tolkien provides good descriptions of these; from the point of view of statistics, Stoors might have more constitution; Harfoots might have more dex, and Fallowhides mght have more charisma.

[DM_Yavanna]

DM Yavanna - Elf con issue was the first thing I corrected :)

*Yavanna's rejoicing can be heard reverberating through Middle Earth, and the olvar and kelvar smile in their own ways*

[DM_Kev]

The Stoor hobbits will certainly need to be one of the priorities as they feature in the Dol Guldur campaign again :)

[VeruMontanum]

Whatever suits people best really.

If anyone wants to volunteer to work on specific bits then feel free to do so - make sure you let us know here so people dont tread on each others toes.


I just realised a slight problem: I don't have NWN2. Even though I've only played it briefly one weekend, there are quite a lot of new changes and different features compared to NWN like the character generation, skills and feats.

Like Yavanna said, most of the salient features of the hobbit sub-races are already well known and well documented on various LOTR websites and our MERP UTT2 manual. I think it makes more sense to keep the present sub-race division system as Stoor, Fallohide and Harfoot with minor specific ability/ skill/ feat pros/cons. Of course we all know that by the late third age, most hobbits in Bree and the shire have inter-married and tend to be of mixed heritage but having distinct sub-races definitely add to the flavour of the server.

I'm certainly still glad to offer ideas (in words/ prose) but I think some knowledge and experience of NWN2 will definitely be helpful when translating ideas into actual stats to be coded into UTT3. So... sorry :|

[DM_Kev]

Any level of assistance is appreciated.

[Silverleaf]

Excuse me for being inquisitive, but exactly how will this subrace system work?

I don't have Neverwinter Nights 2 and thus am probably a bit "out of the loop" on new functions, but from what I know in NWN subrace systems only exist on server-side script, and work completely different from custom classes. From the subrace systems I've seen, most initiate a dialogue when your character logs for the first time. From this dialogue, characters are able to chose their subrace, and gain "creature skins" that add the specific bonus. E.g, a Wood Elf would equip a skin with CON +2, CHA -2 and WIS -2. Subraces can also be automatically given by entering a specific value into the Subrace field. E.g. typing "Drow" gives you specified bonuses. Will this new system work similarly? The TLK and 2das necessary in making this possible mystify me a bit, however.

Of course, there could be a whole new subrace.2da that I'm missing out on here which makes everything super easy... :)

Meh, I wish I could borrow NWN 2 on a high performance PC for a month and get familiar with the new custom content/tweaking available. I'd love to help out with this if I could.

Er.. I'm assuming all Elves will be given Immunity To Poison as their first bonus feat? :D

[DM_Kev]

racialsubtypes.2da :)

NWN2 is a whole new bag of goodies, Silverleaf.

You can now make subraces and have them selectable and fully viewable at character creation. Our range of Dwarf subraces are now fully functional - no additional DM assistance or extra serverside work needed.

And it doesnt stop there - classes, feats, base items, races and materials are all customisable and available from the point of character creation.

Enjoy, UTT3 is truly going to raise the bar.

[morez]

Great to hear some news of the UTT3 development - I am really that interested what you guys will beat out of that game ;).

To human subraces:

I actually would only introduce Edain and maybe Black Numenorians as subraces (actually all offspring of the Numenorians) - Aasimar models could do its job maybe.

For all other humans I would prefer background traits with only some minor adjustments but no ECL and no attribute changes but maybe skills and saves or s.th. like a feat add for a feat loss (e.g. exotic weapon profiency + s.th else for human extra feat)

The Edain are conidered as higher folk - well actually i hate these ideology but heck it's fantasy cmon it's Tolkien :D

Elves IMHO should have ECL and attribute advantages. I'd prefer only ECL +1 for maybe two wins and one loss. A natural speed improvement for elves would be nice! Well . maybe ECL +2 should be more adequate then :P

just my 2 cents
cya

[Lorien]

All human sub-sets would still have to be set as sub-races though to allow them to be picked on creation. Most humans probably wouldn't have attribute changes anyway, this is as much about skills/feats as anything else. The background options you have in NWN2 should be seperate to race and available to all humans regardless of hwere they came from. I'd be happier with a sub0race of 'Northman' (for example) and then that Northman being able to be a militiaman, a warrior a farmer etc. by background, rather than humans not having that kind of background just an area they came from.

[DM_Kev]

For atribute changes, all racial subtypes (subraces) will all have a pretty similar setup - for instance, all Dwarf racial subtypes have at least +2 CON and Fire Resist 5/ - this is a Dwarvish characteristic so it stays with all. I've then introduced 1 or two positive and negative modifiers to abilities where appropriate.

The Dwarves are all done now and i'll maybe pose some examples of how these have been setup soon.

Some subraces may not confer much at all - this may well be the case where there's lots of subraces for one race and very little to distinguish them from each other. Remember that aswell as providing different starting feats and abilities, a subrace allows us to make the game recognise your middle earth racial type and make reference to it. This will be very important for raising the presence of the middle earth theme.

[morez]

All human sub-sets would still have to be set as sub-races though to allow them to be picked on creation. Most humans probably wouldn't have attribute changes anyway, this is as much about skills/feats as anything else. The background options you have in NWN2 should be seperate to race and available to all humans regardless of hwere they came from. I'd be happier with a sub0race of 'Northman' (for example) and then that Northman being able to be a militiaman, a warrior a farmer etc. by background, rather than humans not having that kind of background just an area they came from.

I agree! You convinced me that different background feats should be available for different human subtypes. I just was thinking about the terminology of race and that human should only differ between their cultural background expect those which have the blood of Elros, so the Numenoreans - and there was my statement, but now I agree with you! ;)

IDEA: Edain could use the Aasimar heads - maybe modified without that much tattoos, especially for female characters! And still I would vote for ECL for Edain with some minor attribute advantages.

I am always glad to get news from this UTT3 project.. cya morez