Artistic tendencies

[the-small-print]

Hello there...

I sometimes doodle on photoshop or on paper in my free time, and have recently been having no-internet induced withdrawal symptoms from the server, so some of my doodling has begun to slant in the direction of Tolkien and UTT.

Just thought I'd post a little sketch I did of my character Elenuial watching the paths through Mirkwood, and thought it'd probably be quite cool if any other artsy people from the server would post relevant pictures (if they have any).

Anyhoo... here she is:

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Elenuial%20watching.jpg

Just a quick(ish) atmosphere sketch. I kind of mean to do them for a few of my characters, but lots of work on at the moment so no promises.

P.S.: Is it possible to actualy embed the image in the post? I'm allergic to links...

[DM_Kev]

Mmm, nice work. I'd love to use some 3rd party artwork for future and perhaps existing projects too.

[the-small-print]

Hello again.

Just done another sketch, this time in Painter, of my character Vesp, for all of you who know and loathe her. I'll turn it into a portrait once I've cleaned it up a bit and finished a few more areas (to me, a bit of work is never finished), but I think I've got the general atmosphere of it down.

Not claiming it's fine art or anything, just thought one or two of you might like to see it.

And again, if anyone else has something relevant, then this is the thread to post it in! Come on... there must be at least one of you...

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Vesp%20Ashara%20port%20np.jpg

[SNarfel]

I have spent time in the company of Vesp, and this does capture her in game "mood" really well.

[DM_Kev]

Very nice work :)

[the-small-print]

Hello.

Shame no one else seems to have anything appropriate to this thread, but here's another one form me.

This time it's my character Tinwen Eregaeron, sitting against a holly tree in Rivendell (her second name means 'holly-berry'). She was going to be playing her harp, but the composition worked better if I cropped it this close.

Anyway, here it is:

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/tinwen%20preview.jpg

[Jarmov]

A good one, Small-Print.
:)

[MilouOpo]

Looks good indeed ;)

[the-small-print]

Alright, s the last painting I did of Vesp was alright for atmosphere, but it was still rubbish. Hopefully this one captures her a bit better. It's certainly much closer to how I imagine her, even if her expresson is a little mild for her.

No matter, here she is:

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Vesp%20Vault%20preview.jpg

[SNarfel]

That is indeed excellent, she is rather an attractive lass, despite her tortured soul(?).

[Jarmov]

Mmm.... nice.

[the-small-print]

... just assume she hasn't had a chance to scowl yet.... ;)

[Shattered Verse]

Hey !... what about Braint ?

:)

[the-small-print]

Hey !... what about Braint ?

:)

Here she is....

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Braintpreview.jpg

This was originally part of a wider scene, where there are two dead Uruk-hai, and a big gash across her belly, but the scene wasn't working, so I salvaged her face.

This is something like the twelfth attempt I've made a portrait for her, which may explain some hasty elements, including her torc, cloak etc... Well, to be honest, I just wasn't enjoying this one enough to polish it too much, but this iis Braint more or less as I've always pictured her.

Portrait will follow shortly

[Shattered Verse]

That is brilliant!... in the context of the scene you described, I can almost feel her anger, her hatred slowly simmering and quenched.

Made me remember Larry Elmore and Clyde Caldwell and all their illustrations I loved when I was growing up.

Thank you.

:)

[the-small-print]

That is brilliant!... in the context of the scene you described, I can almost feel her anger, her hatred slowly simmering and quenched.

Made me remember Larry Elmore and Clyde Caldwell and all their illustrations I loved when I was growing up.

Thank you.

:)

Well, fortunately she's wearing a little more practical armour than the women in either of those artists' sites, but I appreciate the comment ;)

Yes... as I say, the scene wasn't really working that well; Braint must be the hardest of my characters to paint, because I feel obliged to include so much information in each painting that the overall composition suffers. I want to paint her sword, her torc (which is poorly represented here), her war-paint, an expressive face, shield and armour insignia, her figure and build, and her horse. Too much... *sigh*

Particularly since I picture an image in my head and then can't find fitting reference for things like pose and light, so I have to fudge it.

Anyway, I am an approval (or at least recognition) junkie, so thank you for leaving some feedback. I really appreciate it ;)

[the-small-print]

Hello again. No characters this time, I'm afraid, just a quick painter sketch I did of an Uruk-hai who seems to be quite upset about something.

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Uruk%20hai.jpg

No plans to make it into a portrait, but if anyone wants to use it, I might see about cleaning it up and adding a proper background etc.

[DM_Eönwë]

Excellent work! I'm speechless!

[the-small-print]

And for my next trick....

Here is Elenuial Mk. II. The first portrait I did of her caught certain aspects of her appearance, but failed to have an overall feel of reality to it, so I decided to do another one.

Sadly this face does not exist in this world, so there is no direct reference used for the portrait, though gyrfalconthegrey's Delainy portrait is the one I use for her sister, Eleri, so I had that open to catch a family resemblance, and the original portrait of her to keep her recognisable.

Anyway, here she is:

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Elenuial%20Preview.jpg

P.S.: Oh, and this time I actually used colour reference from an emerald and some moss for her eyes, so it's now a little more than just a poetic reference this time. ;)

Portrait will follow shortly.

P.P.S.: If you cover up the darker side of her face, don't you think she looks a little like Cate Blanchett? :)

[Mentat]

Amazing, she looks quite real to me.
In fact I know a girl(Gudrun) that looked just like that until about 2 years ago.
Unfortunately she decided to go for a gothic look, thus now the black coloured hair somewhat spoils the resemblance.

Elenuial, very intruiging, ...

But I cant see much of Cate in her, ... though Cate will always stay within the image of Elizabeth I.

Cheers

Keep on with the great work!

[the-small-print]

Thanks for the comments, I'm glad you like it :)

And just in case anyone wanted to see the two together, here is a link to Eleri's portrait by gyrfalconthegrey:

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Portraits.Detail&id=3504

[the-small-print]

*cough* Does anyone else have any thoughts on Elenuial's picture? It is really gratifying to get feedback, you know....

[SNarfel]

The face is exquisite, seems to lose proportion around the shoulders and neck. I really like the pendant, though the cord seems rigid, thus giving the impression that the pendant must be heavy.


Overall a very good composition.

[Kyle Morgan]

I agree, her shoulders are too small, giving her a childlike physique. Her neck could be more slender too.
Her face is great. It looks innocent and young while at the same time something tells she might be older than assumed. It may be the wisdom in her eyes, not sure.

[the-small-print]

Thanks, this is precisely the sort of comment I was after. It's really easy when you've created something from scratch to have a vague feeling that something is wrong, but it sometimes takes a new pair of eyes to tell you what exactly it is.

There are some other problems, like the catchlights (little reflections) in her eyes being unbalanced - the one on the shadowed side is brighter than the one in light - and the fact that I painted it on a dark screen, so on normal LCDs it appears brighter and more washed out, the balance goes a little strange.

I don't know if you noticed before, but Vesp looked grumpier when I painted her than she does on most screens. If you have a flat-screen, you might notice the further back you tip it, the moodier she gets :)

I'll have a go at fixing the problems some time soon, so consider this beta 1 ;)

P.S.: You're both right. That left shoulder is way too high and narrow, and some of the shadows I painted on her neck have brightened, making it seem wider.

P.P.S. : If anyone's interested, I saved steps along the way, from the initial pinky blur right up to the end. Does anyone want to see?

[SNarfel]

I would definitly be interested in seeing the progression stages.

[the-small-print]

Ok, well, here they are:

Stage 1: http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN1.jpg

Ok, this is is just getting the general shape and base tones, so you have something to build up on. Note shadows for eyes and mouth. Important to have a rudimentary face right from the outset. Also note that I'm not using any white; any picture that you don't get get rid of all the white from will be likely to look scratchy and thin, so just add highlights back in later.

Stage 2: http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN2.jpg

This is where you get an idea of light direction and background tone (if not colour). I was going to give her green eyes, so I put some green down as the background to knit the picture together. The features just give the impression of a face, so that there is something alive in the picture. I find it's always easier to paint a face that can look back at you.

Stage 3: http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN3.jpg

This stage just adds a bit of form to the face and gives the eyes a little direction. It's all still very preliminary.

Stage 4:http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN4.jpg

Ok, this is where she begins to take on a bit more life. Adding colour and lighting to her lips will instantly give her a more real expression and personality, and improving the tones on the face give a bit of form. At this stage I'm still working quite closely with the gyr delainy portrait and my own previous one of Elenuial to keep a family resemblance and recognisable features.

Stage 5: http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN7.jpg

This is arguably the best looking stage. The essentials of personality and realism are there, whilst leaving much of it 'painterly' and suggested. This is where the idea of impressionism comes it - rough brush strokes creating an impression of something that can look more 'right' than the real thing. Also note that the image has been flipped here, to give a new perspective. It's quite hard to do this to something you've been working on for hours, because you usddenly thing 'Nooo! It's wrong!' Seriously, try getting an image you're really familiar with and flipping it.

Stage 6: http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN8.jpg

Here you see the difficulty of digital (or really any kind of) painting. To make something better, you sometimes need to make it look worse first, as sown here, by adding golds into the mix and darkening the whole lot of the hair to build it up from shadows, which in the end always looks more real.

Stage 7: http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN10.jpg

It's amazing what a difference adding catchlights does to a pair of eyes, not to mention painting in all the little muscle fibres of the iris. There are still several essential bits wrong, of course, but the hair tones are now looking better, with their gold-and-shadow base and grey secondary reflections. Interesting point: look at peoples' hair. It's never just one colour, there are dozens, hundreds in there, and it all varies wildly depending on light. The primary constituents of most blonde hair is dark brown and light grey.

Stage 8: http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/Elenuial%20WIP/EN11.jpg

Now this is a difficult thing; if you want to make a face look real, you need to add tone, light and dark in the right places, which is firtsly very hard if you don't have any real reference to go on, and secondly, it radically changes the look of the face, sometimes for the worse. I really overworked this (fortunately on a different layer) and had to fade it back a little towards what was there before. Added to that, changing from the dark screen I have to use all week to a decent LCD mashed thebalance and a lot of the shadows suddenly seemed too shallow, the highlights too bright, and the overall balance thrown. Still, you could always think of it as anethereal glow.

There are still some major problems with this, as Snarf and kyle have handily pointed out, among some others I've spotted myself, so it will need a lot more work, but I decided to stop it here for now, because once it's shrunk down to portrait size, many of the problems are lost anyway.

[SNarfel]

Thanks for that, very intersting and enjoyable to read about and see the development of the portrait :).

[the-small-print]

Hello again.

It's Eleri's turn this time:

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Eleri.jpg

She is, as always, a photoshop painting, this time done WITH reference, which explains why she looks more real than the others I've done, and also why she's not so detailed. When you have reference, it's so much easier to get something looking 'just right' without having to mark in every pore, and the end result often looks just a bit more satisfying. Also, it takes half the time, as this did. (less than half, in fact)

The model is Brazilian model Renata Maciel, who is also the model for Gyr's Delainy portrait, which is what gave me the inspiration for the character, though I have to say this painting differs from the photo reference (it's not a paintover or a filter or a copy, it's referenced).

Whether it's any good or not is up to YOU to judge, and please do. Leave lots of constructive comments.

P.S.: Her armour is constructed of articulated sliding plates and light mail, so that she can duck and dodge. It's not just another pretty, impractical design (though it does have its flaws).

[Kyle Morgan]

I like it. Looks more humanlike and very much female while Elves seem to be rather androgyn i think, but still very good.

[SNarfel]

Aye, again an axcellent portrait!!! :)

I like the mood in your portraits and this is no exception. The pose, slight tilt of her head, rather resigned look with blade in hand all seems to suggest that she is about to embark on an activity she feels compelled to do yet one disagreable to her and which she would much rather have avoided if at all possible.

Just a couple of things which very slightly distracted;

The shadow under the nose on the upper lip seems too pronounced, kinda makes her look like she has a moustache and draws attention to itself.

The left collar bone and neck muscle also seem over pronounced; may be the collar bone protrusion is just al ittle out of place and a bit too large perhaps, dunno.

[the-small-print]

Hehe, well thank you for your comments. Snarf, I think what's wrong is actually more likely to be the lighting on her armour, and possiby a bit of skin tone, rather than shadow, because for once I can say that the shadows on her face are correct. Still, I could always tweak it a little ;).

Might have made a little more detail apparent, but that huddled lump on the leaves is in fact the recent recepient of her reluctant attention. I tried to make a convincing kind of web of black blood on her sword, but I had trouble not making it look cheesy, so I deleted it.I intend to work on that sword a bit, actually, since I think it's the most blatantly 'wrong' thing in the foreground.

Kyle, thanks ;). However, I have always seen female elves as being evidently female, and male elves as being clearly male, though much more refined and beautiful than humans, and much more discreetly muscled than your average Arnie/Conan look - this is not to say that they should look gay (as they did in the film :) ), but more kind of lithe and catlike. Tolkien himself reacted with indignity when people kept presenting legolas as effeminate or androgynous, responding with a little rant on the refined masculinity of him

However, I'm going to completely sabotage myself here by showing you he work of Linda Bergkvist, who is a hundred times more skilled than me.


How's this for androgyny? (http://enayla.deviantart.com/art/Hajieelkhe-31663218) (male elf)

As for human? Yes, yu're right, the most elfy-suggestive thing about her IS her armour and the setting, so I agree on that point.However, the model is a particularly beautiful human, and that is more or less how I always saw elves - more human than pixie or fairy-like, but closer to 'perfect'; wiser, stronger, faster, more balanced, tougher and altogether more likely to survive for a hundred different physical, biological and psychological reasons.

[NukeBuster]

What about creating a custom avatar pack? With all the custom avatars presented here?

Would certainly ease the downloading.

[the-small-print]

I had thought to do that - consolidate all of the Custom Portrait thread into one download. They are all available in a 'server portraits' download on the vault, I think Dakota put that together, but it's three huge files contianing many good portraits, but also many not-so-good ones and copies of some you might have already. I'll see about sorting it.

[Bombadillo]

I don't think this really qualifies for the 'custom portrait' thread, so I'm posting it here. It's a picture of Lindis with Nera by an 'artisticlly inclined' friend of mine. It is just a rough sketch and I would not say this is exactly how I imagine her, but it's nice to have nontheless, so I decided to post it.


-

P.S. I take my hat off to everyone who has made my occasional time on the server very enjoyable. Lin's character development is somewhat stalled at the moment, but hopefully that may still change.

[Bombadillo]

Finding myself totally unable to edit the above message in any way. Is this normal?

[Nolëtáro]

Cannot edit your post after 40 minutes. I uncovered this... the hard way =_=

[the-small-print]

...also known as Seregram. Here he is Jarmov. ;)

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/JARMOVI.jpg


As soon as it's approved on the vault, I'll post a link to the portrait on the Custom Ports thread.

[timppako]

A very goodlooking picture small-print! I must add that it looks abit like the man himself. ;)

[DM Elessar]

*curses computer*

[DM Elessar]

So....Clint Eastwood is in The Grey Company? Makes sense..though not sure what he has replaced his .44 magnum with.

[Jarmov]

Thank you the-small-print! I like it a lot.

And yes it does look like Clint because I could not find a better way of describing Serendur to the-small-print - I am not a literary genius. *cackles to himself*

But I do hope he does not look too much of Clint in the smaller picture we see in game.

(And he has replaced his 44. Magnum with a huge maul)

[the-small-print]

So....Clint Eastwood is in The Grey Company? Makes sense..though not sure what he has replaced his .44 magnum with.

I knew it'd be you who recognised the source, though I was expecting something more along the lines of "Do you feel lucky?" etc. ;)



Though in my defence, this is intentionally painted to not look entirely like him, just a fair amount. :)

[Jarmov]

Though in my defence, this is intentionally painted to not look entirely like him, just a fair amount. :)[/QUOTE]

Yes, I thought so too when I saw the recent version. The first one looked exactly like Clint. :)

[Jarmov]

Though in my defence, this is intentionally painted to not look entirely like him, just a fair amount. :)

Yes, I thought so too when I saw the latest version. The first version you did looked exactly like Clint. :)

(damn, sorry for the double post)

[the-small-print]

Hello again. It's been a while, so I thought I'd exercise my doodling hand, and this time actually managed to find a really beautiful reference picture of the model Eleri (Elenuial's sister) is based upon, only at about the age (in sindarin equivalent of course) that I'd always pictured Elenuial and, well... it was too good an opportunity to miss.

I've not really been happy with any of my previous representations of her because they've always been done without reference and hence were always 'wrong'.

This one is looking far more promising, though I call it a work i progress because I haven't decided how to dress her yet. It's another eye-to-brush digital painting done in photoshop (but not a photo manipulation).

Anyway, squint, leer and criticise all you like; comments and suggestions are always appreciated.

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Elenuial3.jpg

[DM_Morgoth]

Nice one TSP

[the-small-print]

A little update.

You always hit a stage in these things where it stops getting much better; you make add detail and completeness, but you don't actually make it look that much better. This is that stage:

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Elenuial4.jpg

[the-small-print]

And another update: here is the semi-final version, which I've just made into a portrait. I'll ask for it to be changed once it's wound its way through the Vault's gargantuan vetting system. Anythoughts and contructive criticisms anone? Sometimes people spot things tha the painter missed, and sometimes the painter just likes to hear what everyone thinks...

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Elenuial5.jpg

...and yes, it is quite similar to the second one I posted, but with some improvements.

[SpymasterGend]

Very nice, tsp. Only one potentially constructive comment. Grey area at left is a tree trunk, correct? May reflect a bit much light if so into hair that side, and the darker engraving-looking bits in it at shoulder height look either lonely (if meant as bark texture) or unexplained (if other). She herself is incredible, and my comments above only reflect a minor distraction overall, probably not even noticeable in-game. Cheers.

[DM_Eönwë]

As I already stated on the vault, this painting is really nice. I really enjoy your work. Keep going on!

[the-small-print]

Right you are....

Here is Eleri again, only better this time.

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Eleriseapreview.jpg

Why be she nekkard? Model was wearing silly shiny pants. She is by the sea. You can work the rest out by yourself....

[DM_Kev]

Some fine work coming through there. :)

[DM_Morgoth]

Indeed, I can se how you become better and better ;)

[the-small-print]

Many donkies both.

[Kyle Morgan]

That's nekkid Merp elf at its best!

Turn around - go figure :)

seriously great work and awesome beauty

[DM_Kev]

Do you work in the creative industry the-small-print?

[Mentat]

awesome job TSP, and given at what level you started, amazing progress.
Ermm, never thought of Eleri beeing that sweet, ... *coughs* Need to adjust to that new view, I guess

[the-small-print]

Hehe, thank you. Yes, Eleri was always supposed to be a looker, just not very girly.

And no Kev, I work for student support in a university, which has absolutely nothing to do with painting etc. ;)

[DM_Eönwë]

Very impressive work, the-small-print. It really is time that you will get your Hall of Fame award on the vault :D

[DM_Roäc]

Well, another commissioned one. Turned out alright, but not as well as I'd hoped, still...

http://nwvault.ign.com/fms/Image.php?id=132117

[Silverleaf]

Well, another commissioned one. Turned out alright, but not as well as I'd hoped, still...

http://nwvault.ign.com/fms/Image.php?id=132117
Damn, she's cute!

[DM_Roäc]

Go vote!

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Portraits.Detail&id=5908

[Nightspell]

I had thought to do that - consolidate all of the Custom Portrait thread into one download. They are all available in a 'server portraits' download on the vault, I think Dakota put that together, but it's three huge files contianing many good portraits, but also many not-so-good ones and copies of some you might have already. I'll see about sorting it.

Alright don't want to toot my own horn but o well.... TSP I made that pack for Kev, If you are looking for portrait files let me know I have 1000's.

[DM_Roäc]

nah, not quite what I meant; I meant a pack which would mean that ideally no one's portrait would be invisible to anyone who downloaded it. Not something to give greater choice at character creation.

[DM_Roäc]

Just a quick 20-something minute doodle of one of the many nasty things lurking in Moria.

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Orc.jpg

[DM_Roäc]

*cough*

[DM_Eönwë]

Very nice!

[DM_Roäc]

Hello again. This time I decided to fiddle with one of my earlier paintings; of Tinwen, which has always bugged me, by looking a bit wonky and male.

She looks a fair bit more female now, though has perhaps lost a little expression and looks a bit doll-y. Probably should work on the background trees and foliage too. Still, an improvement, I think.

You?

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Tinwenmorefem.jpg

[Brindisium]

A big improvement I think but the right side of her chest (as we look) seems a little out of proportion to me ... somehow.

edit: or maybe it is the right side.

[DM_Roäc]

Yep, you're completely right. Well spotted, I'll fix tomorrow.

[the-small-print]

Hello again all. Here is the third attempt I have made at painting Vesp a.k.a. Aewen. Oddly I actually think that in some ways it's not much better than the last go, even though it has many more hours and millions more brush-strokes in it. Oh well, here she is:

http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Aewencroppedfinal.jpg

P.S.: Can you tell I got bored doing the lace? ;)

[DM_Glaurung]

So that's why you didn't join us last night. I'll let you off.
I think it's an improvement on the previous one, and a fine piece of work. Not a criticism, more an observation, but she looks a bit less edgy and irritable in this one; maybe she's mellowing or you just got her in a better mood than I seem to meet her in.

[DM_Roäc]

Yes, I like to think of them as before and after; first being shortly after first meeting elves, the next a year or so later. Now she has more colour in her cheeks, not so skinny, a little less fierce etc.

i'm aware that image is too big, but it was kind of late. Sadly, I can't edit that post now, but I'll shrink the image, and post this (http://homepage.mac.com/anaconda191/.Pictures/photoshop%20stuff/Aewencroppedfinal.jpg) link, so you can zoom in and out.

[DM_Kev]

*recussitates thread*

[DM_Roäc]

Hello again. I must have tried to paint Braint about a dozen times, and never got satisfactory results. So I just decided to forget reference images and start sketching, see what happened. What happened was I ended up with some seriously wrong proportions, so that she ended up looking like she's about 10 years old. But, I thought it looked kind of cute, so instead of trying to 'fix' the proportions, I went with it and made this; a (relatively) quick sketch/painting of Braint aged 9 with her child's bronze torc, warrior-to-be's dove feathers, and ceremonial woad.

Note the lack of scowl. ;)

http://gallery.me.com/anaconda191/100029/sketchBraintpost/web.jpg

I think I like this face more than the previous one though, so I'll probably have another go and try to grow her up a few years, retaining the same basic facial features

[Brindisium]

Cute! Even without the scowl. For a fail it really is very good.

[DM_Glaurung]

Yep, very nice :)

[DM_Roäc]

...and a slightly updated version of Aewen/Vesp. Nothing new, jsut the result of more fiddling wiht the last one. Sadly lost a little character. Looks more like a perfume ad now. Ah well.

Edit: bleuch... I really don't like this one, so I took it down. Looks like a pin-up, and devalues the rest by implication.

[DM_Roäc]

Hello again. I have been attempting to make a grown-up version of the above kid-Braint, retaining the facial features and general feel, but putting her in a more current context, and hopefully showing something of the hardships that have shaped her. You shouldn't want to pat a dunlending on the head and give her some sweets, after all.

I should stress that it really is a work in progress at the moment though; none of the details have been filed in, much of it is still areas of flat colour, the background is bland etc, I have just hit a bit of trouble working out how to proceed, and thought that any feedback people had could be helpful.

http://gallery.me.com/anaconda191/100029/Braint%20WIP/web.jpg

Here follows a bunch of pseudo-ethnographic guff, which is really just a product of me having too much time on my hands between lectures. Read it if you like. If not, I've still enjoyed thinking it all up, and at the very least it'll keep Vulpex happy. ;)

The get-up is not quite what I had imagined for Braint, but since my reference image was dressed like this, it was the easiest way to go. Braint would normally wear a chain shirt and a full cloak, but I found this costume allowed me to show more of her musculature, scars and warpaint, thereby putting forward a little more of the impression I have of Braint. That is, a dangerous, fast and reckless fighter, slightly shorter than average. She is lean but hard, having practiced with sword and shield nearly every day since she was a young child, and has the very strong but wiry muscles this sort of exercise develops, rather than the she-man bubbles that female bodybuilders go for. Not particularly curvy or feminine, but not masculine or boyish either.

The woad marks also begin to tell a story. Since I like fiddling about with the meanings of these things, I had originally intended the woad of each member of the tribe to be unique and individual; a kind of language marking rank, dedication and achievement which evolves throughout life.

In the picture of Braint as a child, which I'll repost here...

http://gallery.me.com/anaconda191/100029/sketchBraintpost/web.jpg

... the marks mean something like this: the circle on her forehead represents the sun; the god of war and battle, the mark of a warrior. Cast from the sun are three spears, representing the sunlight which creates life from death, and defeats the dark things that lurk in the mountains (orcs). The two rising brow-lines are the Misty mountains, as viewed from Dunland, thereby showing that the sun is rising above them in the morning, representing youth and childhood.

The six-pointed triskele design is a mark of balance - birth, life and death as petals and thorns on a flower. The 'tears' represent the gods of the water; rivers that run from the mountains, and as I had initially imagined that in this image Braint was dressed for the funeral of an elder, they represent sorrow as well. The marks on her chin are derived from Māori moko (facial tattoos) as seen here (http://revandy.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/whalerider1.jpg). In that case, I think they represent a whale's tail, and unfurling fern, representing strength, growth etc. In Braint's case, they would be more likely to represent growing plants, or the horns of a mountain goat, with similar connotations.

In the elder picture of Braint, many of the same designs are present, showing the evolution of her personal insignia as she grew older. Most notably, the the sun has risen higher (showing that she has aged but is still young), and the mountains and rivers have become incorporated into the shape of a Great Eagle - the same kind as Gwaihir, since an animal so impressive would surely find its way into someone's religion - which is her totem animal (decided during the rites of passage from childhood to adulthood at age 14), but the river-tears still represent sorrow and loss, though this time it is for considerably more people.

The circular design on her breastbone is the royal mark of the Cambriani, marking her out as royalty (it's actually the shield boss from the Battersea shield (http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Scuto_Battersea_BritMu252a.jpg/140px-Scuto_Battersea_BritMu252a.jpg)). The dragon on her shoulder is the mark of her tribe. Originally it was a black dragon, but it looked better in blue, and again, in a world where dragons did actually exist, they would be sure to be represented in religion or custom, either as a god or as a symbol of great power.

The last significant design so far is on her belly, which is an adapted form of the triskele (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_spiral), which in the real world is thought to have represented something relating to the threefold-goddess of prehistoric European belief systems, but in this context represents a womb, showing Braint as the 'mother of the tribe', or the highest status female. Sort of alpha-female wolf idea, though not to the letter, since she would not be the only one to breed.

The torc about her neck has been described before, but not read by everyone, so I'll repeat it here; it's a composite of twisted gold and silver wire, gold representing the sun, life, day, and the warrior, the silver being the mark of night, death and the Dreamer (read druid or shaman). It features at is terminals the heads of an eagle and a hare wound about each other, the totem animals of Braint and her dead younger sister, Lanis, for whom it was originally made, and who was to be the Dreamer who would 'protect' Braint in battle by performing rites of protection before battle. After Lanis was killed, Braint had ripped off her own torc, wishing to disassociate herself from her past, but when she decided that it was better to seek revenge on behalf of her people (and therefore needed a royal torc to show who she was), she went to her sister's body and swapped this torc for a replacement she had made from mithril, which in my dunlending mythology is the purest possible mark of a Dreamer, since Mithril is considered to be the tears of the moon, shed when the orcs would come out and night and wreak destruction on the lands.

Anyway. Now you know how bored I get in work sometimes. Hopefully you have gained something from reading it other than a numb backside and eye-strain ;)

P.S. Feedback on the painting would be very greatly appreciated. Please be critical. Point out what you like and don't like, and why. Cheers

[DM_Roäc]

Hmmm... seems I gave dud links. I'll work on that later today. Do check back though, please.

[MilouOpo]

When I can not see the pic I just have to stick with the story.

Firstly, I have to say that I do not read lots of IC posts regarding characters whom I have not spent time in character. My reasoning behind that decision is to hinder sublimal, unintentional, metagaming. IC posts most often have information which is excellent and most suitable for the person's whom took part to the events which triggered the writing of given IC post. ...got derailled there....

So, back to the topic.
I find the text and story regarding Braint interesting and very suitable to describe well developed, nature oriented, human culture which has acustomed to live close to the nature instead of big cities or even towns.
The aspects of your dunlander mythology which would require existence of consistent and stable society - capable to uphold monarchy - goes too far from the image I have interpreted from Professor's texts.
While the construct is good and plausible, the skirmishing tribal people of dunland don't fit into it in my perspective. There are propably as many ways to view the few lines from T's works describing dunlanders as there are readers and thus it is not the most exact science. Dunlanders on this context mean the people whom dwelled in dunland during the time of our setting, not the people whose decendants they could be.

Mithril jewelry made for dunlanders of any kind in my notes is going pretty far out of the scope of Third Age of M-E. The 5,5 lbs lump of mithril which is carried around isle of Himring doesn't help with canon either, I am afraid, especially when one sees the creation which is made of it (perhaps it could be changed to Himling silver or some such). The mentioned cultures whom could manipulate or even recognise mithril to my understanding were dúnedain, elves, dwarves and perhaps other human cultures also which would posses technical means and sufficient knowledge level to work with such rare and complex ingredients. I personally can not think any which would give an ornament of such high value to one of the people described in T's texts nor can I reason were member of such group could raise enough funds to have it forged to them. In my books elves or dunedain would not do it and while dwarves might, do work if motivated fiscally they wouldn't sell their dearest treasure, mithri.

The above in mind I would like to repeat that nice and fitting text to a culture, but I can not bring myself imagining dunlander royality when the image on my mind is of restless scattered tribal people.

Lets see the picture! Previous ones have been good and I think it is safe to say that the one to be presented will join the group. :)

[DM_Roäc]

Ok, images up now! Thanks Kev for doing necessary rejigging.

Milou, thanks for the pre-image response. Yeah, I completely see where you are coming from, though I should firstly say that as discussed in depth in my Dunlending ethnography (http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/showthread.php?t=321670) thread, royalty in this case makes sense to me, but not to many others, the difference being that I am used to seeing the term applied to the hereditary chief of smallish to middling Iron-Age tribes in Britain, whereas to most people royalty has connotations of ermine and silks, fine wines and in-breeding. Replace any reference to royalty and monarchy with ideas of chiefdom if it fits your picture better. To me (and many others in Arch./Anth. disciplines), 'King' can mean the same as chief if there is pride involved. In the same way as 'nation' can be applied to groups of people who would formally have been called tribes throughout the American subcontinents. But we've already had a semantic debate about that, so feel free to hear 'chieftainess' when I say queen, not that Braint ever refers to herself like that, for personal reasons.

As for the Mithril, yes, you are completely correct. It does not quite fit or feel right when looked at in context of lore, but in the context of the game, it did happen, with some Uinen-led DM events, involving finding a crafting bar of mithril in the loot of some (many) dead orcs. Was a good event, and in terms of game narrative it fit perfectly. As it happened, there were crafter NPCs of sufficient level to help her with it, but as I said, in context of the Tolkien narrative it doesn't fit. Ah well, tough luck!


Just to re-iterate, what I am looking for here is not so much praise as to know what people think is not quite right with it and what is worth keeping. Do take the time to comment if you feel you have something to add. Cheers ;)

[DM_Roäc]

*cough*

[DM_Roäc]

*sighs*

Suppose I'll go ask someone else.

[MilouOpo]

hmmm-mmm

I would perhaps pull her top slightly higher from the chest and make her expression little less baffled, or is it just me?

Looks like her right shoulder would be little low, but it is propably only the shading of the skin.

[Led Guardian]

Needs some shading for the cleavage. Right now she looks like she has one really wide boob with a tattoo right on the middle portion. Also, her left hip bone looks a little high to me, and I'm having the same issue with the shoulder, although I'm not positive since I don't have a model. Other than those things, it's incredible!

[DM_Roäc]

Thanks for the feedback, both of you. Since posting here I did ask someone else, namely the people who frequent the CG society forums, and they have been helpful but missed the observations you made, so yes, you are being helpful to me!

To address specifics: Milou, on the shoulder, though I have changed the pose slightly from the original reference image, it's in more or less the right place. The model's shoulder is a little higher, which makes her look uncertain and defensive, where I wanted to give the impression with Braint that she was entirely comfortable and confident with a sword in her hand (especially since she has clearly jsut won a fight), and so her shoulder is slightly more thrown back and lower. I might raise it and push it back a few pixels though, considering I have made her stand a little straighter than the model. As for the top, you're right; that cut is a little too low, though not deliberately so. I'll raise it a bit. As for her expression, I wouldn't call it bafflement, but I see what you mean. Since I based her facial structure on the earlier image of her as a child - and on the reference model - her expression initially looked a little too innocent. Once I had decided to add in the spray of blood over her shoulder I thought it looked a bit odd that she was all sweetness and light, so I lowered her brows and gave her slightly more of a snarl, but I did not want to exaggerate it too much. I'll work on it.

That brings me on Led's suggestion. Although the lighting is actually correct, realtive to the reference (http://chonastock.deviantart.com/art/Woad-14-64993457), the model is that is a bit curvier than Braint so although the chest and shoulder are wehre the light is strongest, she casts more shadows. I have also changed the tone, making it less cold, so it has washed out a little bit. I'll address that. You have also made me notice that if I made the leather darker it would define the whole shape there better, as in the reference, though the model's clothing is actually a lot tighter than in my image. ;)

Just a little disclaimer, and vaguely-related tangent here. I am not aiming for a pin-up, since being 'sexy' is not a feature of any of my characters, male or female. It seems a shame though that seeing a white European in so little clothing immediately has connotations of sex, whilst a similarly-dressed African or South-American (in fact many more isolated communities in these regions don't wear anything) looks dignified and, depending on the situation, frightening. This is how Braint is supposed to appear. It's almost a pity that she has to be wearing a top, since the belly and chest are the largest areas of skin on which to display war paint, and it's quite tricky trying to put on enough war paint to appear savage whilst being restricted to small areas of skin not defined by lines fo teh body but of clothing. Unfortunately though, in the culture to which she would belong if she lived in our world, breasts have sexual connotations so it'd change the apparent meaning of the whole piece from powerful hunter to 'video-game babe' and I might as well throw in a chainmail bikini with spiky nippleshields to round off the effect. Also, since at the current point in her in-game timelineline she can't actually be any older than 17 (though I plan to have her age advance now some key story events have cleared aside), it might be seen as a little dodgy.

Tangent over, and thanks again for you two who have shared your opinions. They have helped and will influence how I proceed. Anyone else who has something to observe, even if you're not sure it's right, please share. I really appreciate it when you do.

[vulpex]

Main charm to me with these have allways been just that they are not pinups. We know how that turns out, especially with let us say "american" preferences :)
My perception of Dunnish culture is also on same lines, old fashioned uplands with ancient ways, lowlands more rural or even urban with "common" culture and just folklore about old ways.
It also makes background for rather good characters :)

Torc she is wearing is rather good, just a tad "celtic" allthough i believe such ones have been found. But not the "asterix" school of perceived celtica.
The torc on whole body picture, made of twisted rods or wire is familiar one.
But you need to have one :)

[DM_Roäc]

Following some of your advice and some from the people on the CGtalk boards, I did a bit more last night. Getting there, I think.

I am still very open to suggestions though ;)

http://gallery.me.com/anaconda191/100029/Br%20preview%208dec/web.jpg?

[Ceorlas]

I like her expression, eyes especially, distinctly 'Serious Trouble if you want it' look.

I get the impression that the blood spray pattern across her shoulder & upper breast does not follow her muscle contours. It seems to lie in a flat plane, especially the splodges in the arm pit.

[DM_Roäc]

Good call. You're right; the blood is on a different layer and was a single click with a large 'splatter' brush. I have yet to make it flow around her lines. Thanks for the comment ;)

I think I also need to make her a bit more messy generally; the dark woad on pale skin with its clean lines makes her look a bit too neat and fresh.

[vulpex]

Her skin is getting rather crowded, but on the other hand bodydecoration is giving similar effect as in real life, making her own skin ghostly. I would say, do not overdo it, just bend that bloodpatch a bit and you are done. She is a beauty and a beast.

Oh, and blood is red only few minutes, if in so thin layer, perhaps deeper red and bit smudged will be more natural.
Otherwise i think is one of the better ones you have done.

[DM_Roäc]

This is the painting of Lanis that I posted here (http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/showthread.php?t=318821) last night.

I know some of you are allergic to the IC forum, so I thought I'd better post it here for continuity's sake. For those of you who haven't read, it's just a picture of Braint's 12-yr-old sister, who was killed by the Uruk-hai and dunlendings when her village was destroyed. Intended to make it easier to understand Braint's motivation for being the way she is, and also as a reminder that all of these groups of people, including those who are not among the 'free' are still people. Not all dunlendings are toothless stinking cavemen with heavy brow ridges and wooden spears (Thank you Mr. Jackson)

Tadaaah:

http://gallery.me.com/anaconda191/100029/Lanis%20web/web.jpg?

[VeruMontanum]

That's amazing work mate :)

Adult Braint is very well done too... shades of a certain Keira Knightley in King Arthur perhaps? ;)

ps why are you GMT + 11 now? has there been some great tectonic shift across the Severn?

[vulpex]

Enter her lowbrowed father drooling: "We serve Sa-ruu-man, oh and i have a new pointy stick too"
Jackson rather missed with dunmen indeed, but we care not much.
No much fault on your portrait, nice hair and expression. Besides we agree on perception on dunland, it comes from reading history. Good work, keep to it.

[DM_Roäc]

Well, bless my woad-painted arse, if it isn't Roiry Flannigan! Fancy that.

No, as far as I know there have not been any major geological events in Wales in the last couple of years, but as of about 3 weeks I have been living in Canberra, which is about 12,000 miles away, if that explains the time difference ;)

And no, no inspiration from Keira Knightley at all, except that the woman I used as reference (see Chonastock on DeviantArt) had obviously based her costume on that. Many donkies for comments, you and vulpex.



P.S.: Didn't anyone notice she has grey eyes? That was my little nod at tolkien lore, and who has any kind of magical power in ME. See the dunlending ethnography thread on how this could be possible, if you think it's a bit far-fetched. ;)