View Full Version : league setup discussion
Theres a few things that I think need some open descussion, but also there bound to be some things I hadn't even considered so please do mention them here.
1 - Currently rounds are 15 mins, but with all that pre match and waiting at the start I notice games take about 90 mins, which to me seems a little long, maybe not to others. So should we do 13 or 14 min rounds instead? with just 1 min prematch between rounds?
2 - I dont think clans should be able to sub players mid rounds, as I think it would end up with some teams brining in a different attack team and defence team, which I do belive would be counter productive to what should really be a league to bring out players multi tallents. So I propose a no sub mid round rule, but subs being allowed between maps only. (altho prehaps some concessions if a player times out but then people may abuse that?)
3 - Idle, enforce an idle rule yes/no?
4 - Scoring system, its currently set to matches not maps and to award 3 points for win, 2 points for draw, 1 point for loss, then an aditinal 2 points split in a cap ratio. So if you won both maps 100-0 or even 10-0 your team would get 5 points and the looser 1 point.
The thing is its totally customisable, we can just do 3-1-0 like footie with no bonus points, we can do per map or per match. Personally I like some bonus system as it promotes playing hard right till the end weither u win or lose a map.
Please discuss...
1 - Currently rounds are 15 mins, but with all that pre match and waiting at the start I notice games take about 90 mins, which to me seems a little long, maybe not to others. So should we do 13 or 14 min rounds instead? with just 1 min prematch between rounds?
I don't think we should be changing the round time as 15 mins seems to end fairly fast anyhow - also takes people to adapt if they've just played the defense and and then starting offence & visa versa.
90 mins seems a little excessive - I assume you're talking about 2 maps?
2 - I dont think clans should be able to sub players mid rounds, as I think it would end up with some teams brining in a different attack team and defence team, which I do belive would be counter productive to what should really be a league to bring out players multi tallents. So I propose a no sub mid round rule, but subs being allowed between maps only. (altho prehaps some concessions if a player times out but then people may abuse that?)
Agree, totally. This has been discussed on IRC a fair few times - not only the above but it will also cause extended waiting time for the opposition.
3 - Idle, enforce an idle rule yes/no?
Yeah, it has to be friendly!
4 - Scoring system, its currently set to matches not maps and to award 3 points for win, 2 points for draw, 1 point for loss, then an aditinal 2 points split in a cap ratio. So if you won both maps 100-0 or even 10-0 your team would get 5 points and the looser 1 point.
The thing is its totally customisable, we can just do 3-1-0 like footie with no bonus points, we can do per map or per match. Personally I like some bonus system as it promotes playing hard right till the end weither u win or lose a map.
Don't really have a an opinion on this - I'm open to any point scoring system.
15 minutes seems fine,
Subbing players is only going to add to the time
I don't really agree with idling, it's upto the players/clans to be there on time. It's not the opposing clans fault if a clan can't keep their players on a server :F
yea but in 8v8 grem u lose a defender one of the offy fills in, theres little problem. in 4v4 u lose a defender and its 4 att vs 3 def its gonna cause problems i would think. Prehaps pausing would be better?
AfterShok
13-11-2008, 15:04
1 - Currently rounds are 15 mins, but with all that pre match and waiting at the start I notice games take about 90 mins, which to me seems a little long, maybe not to others. So should we do 13 or 14 min rounds instead? with just 1 min prematch between rounds?15 min rounds are fine IMO
2 - I dont think clans should be able to sub players mid rounds, as I think it would end up with some teams brining in a different attack team and defence team, which I do belive would be counter productive to what should really be a league to bring out players multi tallents. So I propose a no sub mid round rule, but subs being allowed between maps only. (altho prehaps some concessions if a player times out but then people may abuse that?)Agreed, the same 4 people should play attack and defense. Subs should be unlimited between maps.
3 - Idle, enforce an idle rule yes/no?No. It's much easier to cap 3v3 than 4v4. If you aren't capping then offense players can just D/C to force key defenders to idle. There should never be the possibility of a bad connection winning you the game.
4 - Scoring system, its currently set to matches not maps and to award 3 points for win, 2 points for draw, 1 point for loss, then an aditinal 2 points split in a cap ratio. So if you won both maps 100-0 or even 10-0 your team would get 5 points and the looser 1 point.
The thing is its totally customisable, we can just do 3-1-0 like footie with no bonus points, we can do per map or per match. Personally I like some bonus system as it promotes playing hard right till the end weither u win or lose a map.TFC (and footie) encouraged a "go for the win" mentality by making more total points for winning than drawing. In TFC you don't want people playing 8 man defense, but in FF 4v4 this obviously is impossible, so it's not as important.
a 3-2-1 system is not good, because drawing creates more total points (4 vs 3). I'd advise a 2-1-0 system (win-draw-loss) with a bonus point for playing and the 2-split-point cap ratio system.
The split point cap system does provide some relief for those clans which lose and the game is very close. However, it means that skilled clans will never "go easy" on weaker clans, as they need the bonus points. Sometimes it's nice to try new tactics on weaker clans, if you know you can win anyway, but obviously with the bonus point system, you can't do this. (Although you could argue this is best left for friendlies)
Imo you should be able to switch around players between maps, but not between offy and def rounds.
The idle rule is a difficult question. It's a big difference if the defending team drops a player and if the attacking team drops a player. If you have to idle a player while defending it kinda puts you off balance, because you have to do a lot of adjusting, and which position should you idle? The attacking team doesnt get affected that hard by idling a player. So where do you draw the line? :S
yea but in 8v8 grem u lose a defender one of the offy fills in, theres little problem. in 4v4 u lose a defender and its 4 att vs 3 def its gonna cause problems i would think. Prehaps pausing would be better?
Pausing would be an ideal resolution.
4 - Scoring system, its currently set to matches not maps and to award 3 points for win, 2 points for draw, 1 point for loss, then an aditinal 2 points split in a cap ratio. So if you won both maps 100-0 or even 10-0 your team would get 5 points and the looser 1 point.
The thing is its totally customisable, we can just do 3-1-0 like footie with no bonus points, we can do per map or per match. Personally I like some bonus system as it promotes playing hard right till the end weither u win or lose a map.
Please discuss...
I'd be happy with an old skool 3-1-0 footie system for the match.
The issue I have with bonus points is that it gives an advantage to whatever team draws the weakest team on the cap fest maps and thats hardly fair given fixtures are randomised.
1 - Currently rounds are 15 mins, but with all that pre match and waiting at the start I notice games take about 90 mins, which to me seems a little long, maybe not to others. So should we do 13 or 14 min rounds instead? with just 1 min prematch between rounds?
15 mins seems good, maybe cut a minute off prematch, but with loading times etc it might cause some players problems.
At the moment pickup games take forever, but then we have to get 8 random peeps onto a server and sort tactics in prematch. I expect most clans will know their tactics etc beforehand and the players hopefully will be ready at the alloted time, so there shouldn't be such a need for prematch extensions. With the agreement of both clans prematch could be cut, although I detest the "Ready - Yep" mp_prematch has been set to 0, I personally always prefer cutting it so theres 10-30 secs left.
2 - I dont think clans should be able to sub players mid rounds, as I think it would end up with some teams brining in a different attack team and defence team, which I do belive would be counter productive to what should really be a league to bring out players multi tallents. So I propose a no sub mid round rule, but subs being allowed between maps only. (altho prehaps some concessions if a player times out but then people may abuse that?)
I ideally would like a no sub rule, but then there will always be players who get connection problems etc. Maybe we could make it so a substitution has to be agreed by the opponents? (This assumes we're all reasonable human beings tho, which might be a stretch :p)
3 - Idle, enforce an idle rule yes/no?
ick no, as has been pointed out above, its open to abuse.
4 - Scoring system, its currently set to matches not maps and to award 3 points for win, 2 points for draw, 1 point for loss, then an aditinal 2 points split in a cap ratio. So if you won both maps 100-0 or even 10-0 your team would get 5 points and the looser 1 point.
The thing is its totally customisable, we can just do 3-1-0 like footie with no bonus points, we can do per map or per match. Personally I like some bonus system as it promotes playing hard right till the end weither u win or lose a map.
How about each map counts as a game, so 3 points for each won map, a point for a draw, and nowt for a loss? I'm not a huge fan of bonus points, it seems like an extra reward for doing what ur doing anyway. (However if my work want to give me extra money just for doing my job, I won't be complaining)
FLiP.tgc
14-11-2008, 19:59
Scoring system:
i prefer the wptfcl scoring system. its percental. 5 points per map. percental allocated. calculation starts with 30:30 so a clan doesnt get full points when winning 10:0 etc. its the best(fairest) scoring system i have ever seen.
Subs:
we have 2 players which never played off alternatively def. it would be great if they could play only "their" part.
AfterShok
15-11-2008, 21:32
The issue I have with bonus points is that it gives an advantage to whatever team draws the weakest team on the cap fest maps and thats hardly fair given fixtures are randomised.
This isn't necessarily true if the bonus points are awarded for a high ratio rather than certain number of points. (e.g. 30:10 is worth the same as 90:30)
thats how they do work shok. wptfcl used only a cap ratio points system. but now we use a win/lose/draw score + a small bonus for cap ratio.
no, its not.
Its the equivalent of the FLM league setup. You set up your league, then produce the FLM2RS6 using module 12, import that into RS6, then export from RS6 back to revolution. Thats the point it will change.
Yes, I know it sounds retarded. Thats just the solution thats in place to support FFLM simultaneously. Obviously it will be a lot cleaner when FFLM is out of the picture.
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