Battle of Britain (v long)

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Battle of Britain

What’s it about? As Battle of Britain day is approaching (15th September) I propose putting on a big scrap with a Battle of Britain theme. The idea is to present the sides with similar problems as occurred originally, i.e. large numbers of German bombers with fighter escort trying to bomb targets protected by Hurricanes and Spitfires. It will therefore be a variation of the very popular Bomb Run games organised by Len.

This will take place in a private arena, and will require registration by pilots wishing to take part in order to get a fair allocation of teams and to reduce the possibility of team killers.

It is also going to need you to create a pilot just for this game.
Read on and you’ll see why!

Special Rules

Fuel limit will be ON. This is to reduce the time over target for German aircraft, as happened during the battle.

Only early version planes allowed, so all pilots will be started from scratch.

Pilots need to register beforehand stating preference - RAF, German fighter, or Stuka. I will try and meet peoples wishes where possible but cannot guarantee giving first choices. This is to try and ensure a reasonable ratio - we don’t want 20 109s and 1 Stuka; be warned, the RAF will be outnumbered.

Stukas - pilots must have the name "Stuka xxxx" where xxxx is whatever you want, e.g. "Stuka Flying Brick" (seems an appropriate
combination). Leading characters to disguise the fact that this is a bomber are not allowed. They must fly the early 109 with gear down at all times. Apart from looking right, this makes the plane fly at
approximately the right speed. Stukas gain points by crashing into buildings by the GB runway.
6 points for main control tower
3 points for barracks and hangars
2 points for fuel store
-50 points for dive bombing the ref

I know giving no points for taking out the RAF on the runway might seem odd, but they’ll have enough problems without getting rammed on the deck.

In order to present players with similar tactical problems as occurred in the battle, these must be dive bombing attacks, not
flying in at 10ft and going into the side of a building.

German fighter - no restriction on name but must fly the early 109. Their sole purpose is to protect the Stukas. No points gained for
anything. Although it was in the Germans interest to shoot down the RAF wherever they are found, this is to simulate the order to
maintain close escorts.

RAF - must fly early Spitfire or early Hurricane. 2 points for shooting down a Stuka, 1 point for shooting down a fighter (including by anti-aircraft), 1 point for every fighter that crashes.

In the interests of keeping the game personal and fun it would be good if people could create these new pilots using a variation of
their club registered name.

This will be a test of organisational ability for the Germans as they set up fighter sweeps, diversionary attacks etc. Likewise the British will need to co-ordinate with cover at different altitudes to stop
the Stukas getting through.

Important note: the points given here are pretty arbitrary. It might be worth having a practise run beforehand so we can have a scoring system that makes for an even fight.

Team Killers - By requiring registration I hope this won’t be an issue. In case any TKs still insinuate their way into the game, this
will not be tolerated in any form. I trust we will have administrators present who will immediately kick anybody for an infringement.

How to register - send an email to BoB@redtwo.demon.co.uk
giving your email address, pilot name registered with the Air Attack club, and your order of preference for the 3 roles available.

What to expect back - when I have sufficient numbers in to allocate roles against preferences I will mail you the details of what you need to fly as and the password for the game.

When will it happen - I was hoping for Sunday 19th September, being the first Sunday after Battle of Britain day. Because of the number of league games it might be better to go for the 12th September. Duration one hour.

Referees - I assume mainly needed to just park their planes and record the action, but never having reffed I might be missing some of the finer nuances. If any of the regular refs would like to help out they would be very welcome.

[Marky B]

Why not the FW-190?? I'm sure that the 190 was flying during the Battle of Britain.

Knight

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<A HREF="http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~smeeheee

" TARGET=_blank>http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~smeeheee

</A>

['Johnnie' Johnson]

It wasn't.

190 didn't put in an appearance until the Mark V Spitfire was in use, round about mid '41 IIRC.

If you wanna drag it out you could divide a number of PA's into sectors as covered by the RAF and decide a sub battle of the BoB each week. The overall winner being he who won the most sectors etc you get the idea. Just in case your one off goes well and you wanted to do more.

FA do summit similar



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Len

mail : striking.serpents@btinternet.com
website : <A HREF="http://www.btinternet.com/~striking.serpents
" TARGET=_blank>http://www.btinternet.com/~striking.serpents
</A>

['Johnnie' Johnson]

I had been thinking along similar lines, e.g. convoy attacks. The SU base represents the convoy, if the GB get too close they get shot down too (trigger happy Navy vessels).

[The Vindicator]

Interesting Idea. I am all for trying out something different on AA for a change.

When/where can I sign up?



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AMa [WILDCARDS] The Vindicator

[Skeleton]

Count me in...Just tell me when and where..
Good idea to hold practice first

[baztd]

sounds like fun

[Rocky]

Sounds excellent. Let me know where to apply. http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/smile.gif

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Rocky
CO Tempests 29th TFG

Sounds really good fun, but I have some questions;

Who keeps score, don't they need to have ten pairs of eyes?

If I'm a Stuka, I just dive vertically into a building, right? Then I materialise back at base and do the same again? Do I get to shoot anything?

I really want to be there!

[Ems]

an excellent and appopriate idea.

It will be an honour to administrate such an event, let me know the details nearer the time and I will be there

emily

[Mebe]

Fantastic JJ, mail sent already.

Heres an idea (tm) to make things more realistic, challenging and fun.

We now know how to move between runway groups (fly to it and land). How about starting the GE and GB at different runway groups.

That would increase the separation which:
a) gives more time to wing up
http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/stare.gif makes the limited fuel waaay more important
c) simulate the limited warning of the day since the map wont show the germans forming up. You just see them on the way.

Oh and you could go for limited ammo too.

Mebe

[Flames]

This is an excellent idea. I leave on the 19th Sept, so it would be an great last hurrah ( if it's on the 12th.) Count me in. I'm regsitering myself for it now.

[Flames]

Can Mr WPS sort it so the GE have no radar as well. http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/teeth.gif
Just to make it realistic.

['Johnnie' Johnson]

To those asking where to apply here's the bit you missed!!

How to register - send an email to BoB@redtwo.demon.co.uk
giving your email address, pilot name registered with the Air Attack club, and your order of preference for the 3 roles available.

Mebe - that sounds a good idea, and one I wanted to incorporate but how can it be done other than making everybody fly off to a different runway first? Although that method would probably work with only a few players, I could see it falling apart if we get lots. It's sometimes hard enough getting a single squad to form up and take off without colliding into each other!

Limited ammo - very tempted. I'll check out what kind of load people get with the planes in question. It might make the game less appealing though. I know quite a few have criticised this option as being too limiting.

[Mebe]

Unless someone (i.e. WPS) knows of a clever way this can be done I think flying and landing is the only answer.

Alhough it will be messy I think we could cope with it.

[tinvek]

yes yes yes yes yes

oh boy oh boy oh boy

count me in dont care what, gb 109 stuka or even as an airraid warden shouting put those lights out

actually theres a thought why not get people to play the sector controllers so they dont fly but just watch map and control their country's planes or are we just getting too carried away now.

biggest ref problem i can see is the stealth stuka which pretens to be a 109 till its over target, ie climb to aprox 10000m as a stuka, when no one can read name, switch to 109 come across to gb base, drop gear into stuka mode and come straight down.

stuka tactics should be fun but i bet the jaeger pilots keep ****ing off after fighters.

[tinvek]

if you ae trying to maintain the correct ratio, might the ge base not get a bit crowded?

if we're using the second runways as europe why not use yak with wheels down for stuka.

that way there's more room, and the fighters will not only have to form up themselves but also join up with the stukas.

also yak has full green house like stuka so might look better, is slower with less power than 109 so thats better, is made out of paper mache (or so if feels ) so is like stuka again and can also turn on a sixpence like stuka.

one other advantage though i dont think it counts is that stuka contains SU haha but seriously would make it easier to spot any cheats, on the other hand would it give an unfair advantage to gb as they could see which planes were which on radar / map?

['Johnnie' Johnson]

OK let's try and respond to all the questions, ideas and comments!

Em, thanks for the offer, I think I'll be needing the help.

Dragonweed, the refs will need to record the action and check score in the playback. As the Germans only get points for destroying buildings they need to keep their eyes on the GB base. Checking RAF kills might be harder, I don't know because I've never reffed so I'm not sure where the major difficulties are. Yes, you hurtle into a building and rack up some points, then reform as part of the next wave. You can shoot planes down but you won't get any points because that isn't your primary mission.

Tinvek, sector controllers are something I was anticipating especially if the sides get themselves organised. It might work best if we do try Mebe's idea of moving to a different runway. If anybody who is a Stuka leaves their gear up they are cheating! I need to incorporate something into the rules to cover this. I considered using other nationalities as bombers but for precisely the reason you give (easy to spot on radar) decided against it. The Yak is also too maneuvreable.

Idea - if we were to split runways, maybe the german fighters could move south leaving the stukas at the usual runway. Makes more room, emphasises the fuel shortage. What I don't want is to make people fed up by flying north for 10 minutes, getting 30 seconds of action then starting all over again. As the whole purpose of the Stuka is to plummet into a building I want to keep the action fast for them or it will become tedious. So we could move the German fighters south, leave the Stukas and RAF where they are.

[ThIrStY_CaMeL]

u could infact make a compotion with each sqd. all the members of the sqd well take a part in every day even if u only have 3 u can play and have a joker or forfit. It would be quite cool. its just a thought. erm has someone already mentioned it?? did i just say wot len said? http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/frown.gif soz m8

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fly with me lesbain seagal

[ThIrStY_CaMeL]

im in http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/smile.gif as i would like to fly GB shall i put me name as RAF Sniper? or can i use a diffrent name? http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/smile.gif like RAF ThIrStY_CaMeL http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/teeth.gif

[Wraith]

I think this calls for one of my "special" webpages...... do you want advertising on the domain aswell? It can be done most easily I assure you. Oh, sending email now sir.

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Thirsty Camel, if you fly as RAF you can call yourself whatever you want but it'd be good if it's something people will recognise. No need to put "RAF" at the front, it's only the Stuka pilots who need to put "Stuka" at the front.

Just make sure you register by mailing BoB@redtwo.demon.co.uk so you'll be on the list for passwords.

['Johnnie' Johnson]

I'm getting quite a few people keen to be a Stuka! Can I remind you all to list a second choice when registering in case it gets too unbalanced. Of course, if the Germans have nothing but bombers they'll only have themselves to blame!

[Mebe]

Personally I think having to fly and form up for 5-10 mins before going into action might *add* something to the game, but I agree that not everyone will like it. However, with everyone on one small set of runway it'll end up just being a free for all with little tactics.

Maybe it's a case of having a couple of dry runs to see how it plays with a dozen or so volunteers? Godz have a weekly practice and I'm sure we'd be happy to use one of them to trial it, as would plenty of other squads.

Mebe

[[WTc] Guigsy]

no m8. 109 + gear up = payback time.

excelent idea tho.

guess 616 are brits then?

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http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/stage/8782

[CrazyIvan]

I dont think bombers should start further away as with wheels down they're gonna take long enough getting up to alt. As for the fighers hmm err I dont think they should either it'll just make the game harder to set up and late comers will have problems.

By the time the Stuka are up to alt the fighters are gonna be down on fuel - I dont think its gonna be easy recreating the fuel problems as 100% last a long time but we dont want people having to fly miles to get into action as that may lead to a shortage of people who want to be 109 pilots &lt;shudder&gt;

Sounds fun to me - loads of stuka pilots HA - gonna put in my application now :-)) GB GB GB hehe 109s with there gear down -outnumbered sounds fun to me :-))

['Johnnie' Johnson]

109s with their gear down = payback time!

[FBrick]

Well as I won't be here on 15th sept, I wouldn't mind taking part in any practice.

The Tigers have a "free" weekend coming up due to Hawks disbanding.

Feel free to use us as you wish http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/smile.gif &lt;ahem&gt;

FB

[Bat's Arse]

We're there, dude!

Lemme get them thar Stukas!

[Wraith]

I have added this event to the air attack site.

[Fidtz]

Rather than using the other runway groups how about GB not being allowed past the line (extended to the edge of the map) where the GE runway texture begins. this might give an appropiate "English Channel" effect and allow tactics to be used by the bombers and escorts.

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[Tempest]4 Fidtz

Don't like my old sig anymore.

Johnnie, a thought about tactics;

Bombers flew in formation for self-protection, as they usually had gunners that were positioned to protect from attacks on the vulnerable areas. The pattern of the formation would provide an overall zone of protection, as planes protected each other as well as themselves. Heinkel 111s, ME 110s, Junkers 88s and even Stukas all had the one thing I won't have; a rear gunner.

If I want protection from attack as a Stuka, I may end up zig-zaging all over the shop, to avoid being a sitting duck. If we all sit together as a pack (like the real ones did) then we just make a big fat single target. Our group gathering won't allow our tail gunners to offer better mutual protection. What can the fighter 109s do for us, apart from get in the way of the bullets to protect us? The GBs will only need to point at us and fire for a few seconds, then run away.

I am intrigued to see what happens in the Dress Rehearsal. I fear it could become very messy very quickly as the formation will not be an attractive option.

Can I bring my kid brother to sit next to me in the 109-disguised-as-a-Stuka, sticking his Pea Shooter out the window?

Oh dear, I do hope this isn't seen as being a "Wet Blanket". I'm really looking forward to the scale of the spectacle and the significance of the date will be profound. Wouldn't it be nice if WP manage to remove the anachronistic log-out bug in time for the big show...

Dragonweed says "Use the board".

[Mebe]

Funny, I've noticed plenty of rear gunners on the conversations board!

...Oi Murphy!

[Mebe]

Funny, I've noticed plenty of rear gunners on the conversations board!

...Oi Murphy!

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Fiditz - interesting idea about the Channel effect. When I was putting the proposal together for the game I wondered if something along these lines would be worthwhile, and decided against it on the grounds of keeping the rules simple. I think we should see how the practice session works first.

Dragonweed - you are right about the gunners of course, which is why I picked on the Stuka. That single MG was pretty ineffective, so declaring the German bombers to be Stukas was the option that gave the smallest divergence from reality considering this whole thing is going to need quite a leap of the imagination!

[Da Morg]

How about using whole AA squadrons/jastas to make organisation easier?

[Mad Dog]

This sounds like really good fun,but do you have to be a good pilot to join in???? I'm a bit pants you see.....

Thanks
Mad Dog Dan

[Mebe]

There won't be any restrictions on who can play, the more the better.


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Mebe

Air Attack Hints & Tips <A HREF="http://www.howegrove.demon.co.uk\main.htm" TARGET=_blank>www.howegrove.demon.co.uk\main.htm
</A>

[Aven...]

i like the sound of this, but im not sure i like the idea of being stuck unable to manouver, infact i think it'll make me feel like i normally do in FFA http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/frown.gif too slow, too fat and too crap http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/frown.gif but im looking forwards to it, application in the post m8 http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/smile.gif

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Avenger[WILDCARDS]
come visit me at http://members.xoom.com/avenger001/index.htm

['Johnnie' Johnson]

&gt;How about using whole AA squadrons/jastas to make organisation easier?

Any squadron that wants to join in as a single unit can do so, as long as they register.

[The Elaysian]

Cool idea, count me in !!!

[baztd]

as anyone made mention of this before ?
the good old 'spawn on the wrong set of air fields' bu... erm 'undocumented feature'
no doubt some GB will be starting on the wrong air fields. during the time that they are all flying accross to the correct runways to land, the GE fighters could be flying off to another air field.
the way I see it, if we have an 'english channel' boundry, the Bombers could gather on the GE side of it while the fighter escort catch up.
The brits cant cross the water, but they can see the formation on the radar.
the GE bombers can cross the water any time they like, but it would be in their best interest to do so once the fighters have arrived.

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[TNT]Baztd

[Squeeky]

erm why do GE have to move?
There will be less GB they could all fly south or north which would take less organising than GE doing it cos GE have to split stukka's and fighters whereas all GB just pack up and move.
As for limited fuel tis great add loads of character.
Ammo would be good but after I kill my 25th 109/stukka with a 100%hit ratio I'll have to go all the way down from 30k&gt; http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/frown.gif
About the flying along way.I don't think it will matter the distance from one set of air fields to another is about the same as beween GB.SU.GE and US air fields in FA.no one minds cos in a constant climb towards each field u get to a nice hieght b4 u get there.

What what?
Tally Ho!!!!!!!!!!
oh aye....Smoke my a kippa luv I'll be back for breakfast!

['Johnnie' Johnson]

BTW, I'll be taking a short 'working' holiday until next Tuesday. If anybody mails queries etc to me this is why you won't be getting an immediate reply.

&lt;plug&gt;
And of course if you find yourself in the vicinity of the Weald and Download Museum near Chichester why not come in and see what's going on.
&lt;/plug&gt;

[Mebe]

Wow JJ, they finally twigged you are old enough to be a museum exhibit?


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Mebe

Air Attack Hints & Tips <A HREF="http://www.howegrove.demon.co.uk\main.htm" TARGET=_blank>www.howegrove.demon.co.uk\main.htm
</A>

[Richtofen]

Sounds way too much like fun. AA is supposed to be serious man.
Count me in, e-mails on way http://www.wireplay.co.uk/ubb/redface.gif)

Question how long will it take to fly between runway groups in a bottom opf the range 109 with the wheels down?

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['Johnnie' Johnson]

&gt;There will be less GB they could all fly south or north which would take less organising than GE doing it cos GE have
to split stukka's and fighters whereas all GB just pack up and move.

The reason is that Mebe suggested the GE runway could get way too crowded, which seemed a good point.

['Johnnie' Johnson]

&gt; Wow JJ, they finally twigged you are old enough to be a museum exhibit?

If you only knew how true that is!
http://www.redtwo.demon.co.uk/HRW/index.htm

if you want to see more.

['Johnnie' Johnson]

Nothing significant, just thought it was time to get this topic back up near the top so any newcomers can see it.

[Lancelot]

Great idea, I love it. The best thing is that being pants, Mad Dog, just fits in with the whole scenario. Lots of units flew with new POf's and Sgt Pilots so having a number of useless people, myself including will just help to make it more fun!

As will the score keeping problem, the amount of kills and losses recorded during that period was notoriously 'sketchy' and will just fuel future debate after the event. Just like the real thing.

e-mail's on the way.



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Lancelot
e-mail: lancelot@ic24.net
ICQ: 47439336

[SYNDICATE BOY]

Ok, ill ask me dad when he gets back, if yes, you'll have to put me down as a 109 fighter..... Mwahahahahahahahaaaaaa!

Dagagagagagagaga BOOM!

[SYNDICATE BOY]

newcommers come 'ere....