What do you want?

[DM_Aiwendil]

You know, I really like that idea. You would summon troops of your own race. Would need quite a lot of NPCs (different levels of each race of each type), but a very interesting idea.

[Thurion]

I have just 2 hunches about all this...


I'm not against neutral characters as well... I know Tolkien's world is much about black and white, but a little bit of grey is always an interesting hook for RP

And of course.. A lot less magic.. I think that apart from the 5 wizards, only some elves should have a very subtle magic


That is just my opinion... All the rest is just perfect for me as it is

[Cullkett]

I'd like to see less warriors running round in full plate mail, maybe imposing constitution penalties for wearing heavy armour.
looking back through history most heavy armour wearing types would have been on horse back as they would not have lasted very long on foot due to the immense weight and strength needed to move round in such a cumbersome suit of metal.
How about giving all armour the same (or very similar) AC bonuses and the only difference being the dex bonus allowed and maybe a penalty to con? due to the weight.
Can you honestly imagine a fighter in full plate beating a fighter of the same prowess in a lighter armour if any, i'm sure the unencumbered fighter would run rings round the steel clad sloth and soon finnish him off once he was exausted.
i think the only metal a warrior needs is his weapon and and a sheild anything else is just weight...dead weight!
Anyway just an idea but i would like to see the armour system revamped to make it more realistic and offer the fighters a wider range of more balanced armours instead of the obligatory full plate.

[Kyle Morgan]

I'd like to see less warriors running round in full plate mail...

From what i have seen in NWN2 so far..

There is no walking key. To prevent from running you have to use search mode or track mode ur shift-click. The game is more designed for running, even more so as you do not get as quickly encumbered as in NWN1.
The armour range is more adaptable. I have seen an Arcane Archer Mithril chain shirt that counts as light armour with AC 4 + (max)6 DEX.
Since Ability Bonus from items not stack anymore, you can hardly reach high values though.

[Anarial]

Well Hello Hello!

I only have one question. Are we going to be seeing the server up anytime soon? Various other servers have their 'bare bones' on the go - is MERP gonna do the same?

[ghost81]

Nope, we're not going up until we're ready to launch with a proper server - it'll be worth the wait belief me.

[DM_Kev]

Quoting my announcement on UTT3:

However, as the future of a new game like this (NWN2) is always unknown, we will be taking our time with the production of UTT3. Therefore, I will be unable to give a initial completion date for the time being, but I will give you one when im confident we can deliver on it. Production has begun and will take place for many months to come to deliver the best middle earth nwn experience yet. Expect the NWN2 forum to become more populated with topics as we progress.

I too have noticed a small number of gameworlds going live already. Whilst it's good to see the NWN2 community off to a good start and that every game community can decide for itself, I've decided on a unofficial date of release for several reasons which I hope people will understand;

• As stated in the quote, a new game carries a lot of unknown factors and initial release bugs. We would like to be more certain of what the game is capable of and what issues may allow/prevent us from producing certain parts of the module. Server performance and operation issues can be addressed by our own tests and observation of those servers already online.
  
• There's a fair number of people who don't have NWN2 yet for mostly hardware related reasons. Spending a decent period of time producing UTT3 allows these people who ultimately want to join us in NWN2/UTT3, to "catch up" by upgrading their systems, buying new PCs or whatever they need/want to do.
  
• It is my intention to address a downside to the UTT2 project where large updates were often incomplete, especially where new regions was concerned. For UTT3, I'd like to only introduce new regions in their completed state. I don't want to offer players a half-bake game. So our initial release, to all intents and purposes, will be a "complete" version of UTT3. Of course we will make small adjustments here and there, but nothing game-breaking. Further regional and major changes will arrive in the way of our own "expansion packs". The long initial development period will be dedicated to producing a "complete", exciting, bug free and thoroughly enjoyable classic roleplaying game. I will settle for no less.

Hope that highlights our reasioning and makes sense to people.

[the-small-print]

Just a couple of ideas. I've got no idea how hard it is to script in NWN, so apologies if what I suggest is impossible/ridiculously hard to achieve.

The general idea here is that in the Anglo-saxon/medieval world on which Middle Earth was based, a warrior would have some knowledge and skill in caring for his weapons, and those who were more 'woodcrafty' and resourceful would have added advantages. My ideas are these:

1. Whetstones should be cheaply available, so that you can sharpen your blades before you go into battle. This should probably take a short time, and perhaps some kind of skill check, with a possibility of injuring yourself on the blade. The effect would be to make the weapon keen (or some limited form of keen) for a period of time - or more ideally a certain amount of damage - dependent on the quality of the weapon, the quality of the whetstone (you can actually use some river stones IRL, but you won't get quite the same edge), and the crafting skill of the player, (This would not need to be high; it takes a lot less skill to sharpen a blade then to forge one) until the blade became dull again through use. Also, smiths should be able to sharpen your blades for you to a fine degree.

2. Poisons should be more readily available, and not limited to be only useable by evil characters. There are many plants and creatures that grow in temperate climates which can be used to create poisons of varying potencies. Although I've never used the herbology system, I understand it's a way of crafting healing kits and potions, but why not poisons too? If your character has good enough lore and crafting skills, he/she should be able to gather and mix plants to make poisons to coat wepaons, which could be wither very liquid, so would dissipate fast, or thick and tacky and last for a longer time, or burnt onto the blade and last for ages. There could also be several types of poisons - your average ones which get progressively worse, or fast-acting ones which simply cause a lot of pain, thereby making your opponent weaker and more clumsy, or slow-acting ones that are difficult to cure. As I've mentioned, it should take a high lore skill to properly identify the right ingredients, and some crafting skill to prepare them.

3. Another thing I've found is that bows are, in my opinion, seriously underpowered. I've used several bows in my time, and can appreciate the stopping power that a 120lb draw-weight longbow holds, almost regardless of what kind of arrows it shoots. True, arrow make is important, but arrows in UTT2 are highly overpriced and not really that effective. I think it'd be really nice if you could buy arrowheads and fletching feathers at a cut-down price, and then use your lore and crafting skills to locate and prepare suitable shafts, or buy pre-prepared shafts from shops and suppliers. With this available, those with enough woodlore skills could make decent arrows at a cut-down price and therefore not constantly be out of gold from buying arrows. Also it'd be anice feature if you could craft your own arrowheads from flint, bone or horn you find/gather from rock piles and animals. Horn and bone might not be the best materials, but well-knapped flint (which is hard to do) can be made to ahve an edge twice as sharp as the sharpest steel scalpel surgeons use today. In fact, the very finest scalpels used in surgery have flint blades.

That's most of what I can think of for now.... I'm just a little tired of my stealthy, skilled ranger character doing nothing much but scout ahead needlessly, returning to deliver a report, that even if she did manage to finish the sentence befroe the fighters recklessly charged off, wouldn't make much difference to the actual strategy. It'd be nice if she could mix up a stock of poisons, shapren her companions' blades and coat tehm so that they could do more damage in battle, or poison her arrows so she could actually do some injury to her opponents before the mad axe-wielding dwarf lopped all their heads off, doing 80 damage a time.


Wow... long post. I'm probably never going to get to play NWN2 anyway....

[Nightspell]

This is more of a question than of what I'd like to see.
What char classes are to be removed from UTT3?
Will Warlocks and sorcerers be eliminated?
Also no one has addressed the Bards ability of Inspiration.
I would like to know what things will *not* be aloud in UTT3. Could make things easier for me to narrow down what I'd like to see. Now that I've gotten comfortable playing NWN2 for a while.

[DM_Kev]

Nightspell -

No final decision has been made on this just yet, though we have a number of general ideas which are very likely to be implemented in some form or other.

1. Removals will likely be Red Dragon Disciples, Palemasters, Arcane Archers and Shadow Dancers.

2. Rather than making new classes, the focus has shifted to modifying existing classes and converting them into a more Middle Earth friendly setup. Hak files in NWN2 load before character creation/selection, allowing us to control base classes and races. So those classes with the few elements that don't fit will get some changes.

3. Magic using classes are going to see the bulk of the new system. Expect the majority of existing magic spells to be removed and a selection of new ones to be created. There will be less spells to cast - in return, magic users will see a noticeable boost to their melee abilities, giving them the ability to cast those useful spells, and also hold their own in combat, to some extent.

Warlocks and Sorcerers and all those other magical classes may well remain in the game, but in a seriously revised form. It is likely we will go with ditching Wizards again for previously stated reasons and renaming Wizard to Sorcerer. The changes to NWN Hak management means we can pull this one off better this time and make it less confusing for new players.

Bards have been nicely setup for NWN2 and in some respects is just what we are looking for. Expect to see their inspirational abilities remain in the game. We may play with the effects a little, but the ability itself shall remain for certain. Bard Spells will be looked at, since there will be universal spell changes, additions and removals.


I could go on a lot more about it, but I hope to address all this a good deal more when we've tested and discussed ideas a bit more. I hope some of your questions have been answered for now.

[Nightspell]

Thank you Kev. You have answered the main points of what I was asking. Also as you have noted that this discussion could continue for each class almost indeffinately, I agree. I have a great interest into the modifications of each of the classes and much more, concerning char creatation, but not creating new ones. Deities for one, and other such complex information such as a possibility of custom backround labels. Each with their own added bonuses and deductions. If you wish I could compile a complete list of backround labels and deities, ie for good and evil. Might take me a day or two to finish if ya want em. I truely believe this would be a must for clerics and druids. Each Valar could offer a different list of attributes and skill bonuses and deductions. Much the same way the game is now only tweeked.
Sorry to be a pain but each time I play NWN2 and refer my thinking to UTT3, I come up with a new though on how it could be changed to suit Middle Earth. I can't even immagine how you guys/girls deal with it all. lol that is what I'd be doing if I was in your shoes.

[DM_Kev]

Feel free to submit your ideas. Im looking at Background Feats in particular.

Background feats are a new feature which allow a player to select their characters general background before they begin playing. I'm intending to utilise this feature by creating backgrounds to give a general explanation to their characters starting area and motivations.

So, for example, when a new player chooses their first starting area as Dol Guldur, they could choose, for example, Dol Guldur - Thrall, Dol Guldur Mercenary and Dol Guldur Firend/Ally background feats which will reflect on NPC's reactions to your character and confer certain advantages/disadvantages.

[Nightspell]

I think it should be well noted that each of these backround feats are based upon a baseline char build. Something a char grew up with or just recently started in their life. Ie. what they did befor they became a thrall of Dol Guldur. And so on. Family backrounds and reputations of such, especially with the elves should be highly exclusive to elves. The same should go with the Dunedain/ Numenorians. Obviously an Orc could not have the same claim to be a farmer of the same rights as a Hobbit of the shire. So in which case if it could be possible each class could have their own specific backround feats and reputations, with some ofcourse overlaping within reason of realism.
Just a tidbit of what I will send in the final revision for review.

On a firther note. I think Druids should be given a good look over. With their casting ability and enhancing abilities of others they have basically become a cleric and wizard all in one. I have seen it to be a very powerful class with high magic abilities. This brings into question the low magic aspect of UTT3. I am not fully aware of exactly how many druids there actually were in tollkins' middle earth but I would have to believe that it was not some merauding army where just about everywhere you looked one could be found. Just a wandering thought that I believe should be spoke of.

[Niklas66]

Have you decided to use a world map in UTT3 or will travels work as in the previous modules? Opinions?


http://www.legolas.org/gallery/d/3647-2/abm.jpg

[DM_Kev]

World map will *have* to be used - for good and ill I suppose.

In NWN2, it wont be possible to have countless exterior areas, due to their incredible consumption of system resources. That's not to say there won't be many - we will have many exteriors, but each and every one will have to be very rich with activities and places of interest to make the "investment" of resources worth it.

We will use some area transitions between exteriors on occasion, but expect some of those longer haul journeys to be done via the world map. For those travelling purists, it may be a down point, but all that is really required is some adaptation to the new feature. It was a journey, so you can still continue to roleplay around it - make something up! It is possible to setup "encounters on the way" - we will endeavour to use this feature. World map will also be very helpful in helping characters on their own find company faster - thats great seeing as one of the issues with the Untold Series has been the difficulty in finding others to join up with or encounter.

[Niklas66]

Well mostly for good I hope . The only thing which made me wonder was how to create the "larger dungeons" (Moria, Silverdelve etc) since they'll require a high amount of detailed areas. For example (bad one though) there was some guy in the NWN2 Bioware forums talking about his ME module;

"I already have moria finished with 7 deeps and 7 levels ...blablablablabla... total areas for moria are 181. Module size is 572MB".


I honestly feel quite a relief not to be forced to experince an exhausting walk across middle earth five times every time I play It would really be a good thing to put more focus on "important" areas, which I hope will make chances of meeting other players more likely.

Concerning encounters on the way, is it possible to make the encounters random? I mean sometimes you encounter something, sometimes you don't. This would involve the type of monster spawning aswell, which means not getting attacked by the same three wilderness spiders every time I'm passing through Mirkwood hehe. Of course there should be restrictions, it would be a bit crazy if Frodo Baggins encountered a sleeping cave troll while stealing mushrooms from Farmer Maggot's fields...

[DM_Kev]

Interior areas use significantly less resources than exteriors - in terms of file size, tens of megabytes less. This means we can continue to produce large dungeons and the like - hurrah.

What we may have to do, however, to meet our initial cap of 250 areas (believe me, thats half the number of areas UTT2 uses, so its much less) is to justify interior areas on a resource cost/gameplay benefit - this means that, for instance, some interior shops will have to be placed outside instead to make way for more interiors devoted to moria or other large and highly complex interior layouts we may want to include.

We may also use "recycled" interiors, where many interior areas are built into one area but isolated from each other. For instance - all of tharbads merchants are built in one area, but isolated from oneanother - this saves on the resources of running 4+ areas just for shops.

The intentions I have behind the areas for UTT3 is one of fewer exterior areas, perhaps, but vastly greater detail and roleplay inspiring content such as quests, npcs, guild provisions, community "gathering" areas.

I see every reason to believe encounters may be set as random.

[morez]

I'd love to see some PvP encounter system, if it's possible:

Let me explain: Players should have the option to couch at an encounter area between certain directions and once another player will travel that direction via world map he should be forced to spawn to that encounter area where that other player waits for her or stalks him.
Actually I don't want to encourage endless PvP fights, no, it just could give nice opportunities to encounter other players and RP with them.

However, not sure how this could be possible by scripting. Just could think about great potential by using such a system.

Just my 2 cents!

[mattimus]

Bring it on, bring it on!

[Silverleaf]

Whoa..! Look who posted! Welcome back Mattimus!

[Nightspell]

[QUOTE=morez;3287808]
I'd love to see some PvP encounter system, if it's possible:

Let me explain: Players should have the option to couch at an encounter area between certain directions and once another player will travel that direction via world map he should be forced to spawn to that encounter area where that other player waits for her or stalks him.
Actually I don't want to encourage endless PvP fights, no, it just could give nice opportunities to encounter other players and RP with them.[QUOTE]

Excillent thought!!! Not nessarlily on the PvP side, but possible, yes. But think of it if some one is traveling on a known road to a specific destination, a city or town, and someone were upon that road not nessarlily trying to NOT be found. Well then anyone traveling upon that road would have to come upon them. A chance encounter for RP or perhaps a PC road bandit? Possiblities??? I like the thought. What say you Kev? Is it possible?

Bahh, Quote thingy not working for me

[DM_Kev]

I can see uses for the idea. We are still at a very early stage though, so i'll have to revisit this topic sometime.

[Niklas66]

some interior shops will have to be placed outside instead to make way for more interiors devoted to moria or other large and highly complex interior layouts we may want to include.

Apart from the area cap problem I would personally prefer if a majority of the shops were placed outside, mainly because of annoying and loading times


Also I like Morez idea of a PvP encounter system, I really hope its achievable!
But if, lets say two different parties travel the same way,

short example: party1 travel from Bree to Tharbad using the world map and encounter some bandits. While they are dealing with the bandits party2 are leaving from Bree and are heading for Tharbad aswell. Shouldn't they encounter both party1+bandits since they most likely are using the same road?

Dunno if this maybe just would make things more complicated :S

[DM_Kev]

I'm not too bothered by having shops placed outside right now. It means our exteriors can have more detail and we can use the spare interiors for something worthwhile. It may be a nice way of immersing npc merchants into the world in a better way.

I've not fully explored the world map function yet, as we are lacking a map! I'll get back to this when the time comes.

[New Spirit]

I'd like to see a xp reward system where you don't get most xp from killing monsters, and don't get full xp when in party while doing nothing.

A system that features the above:
- you get no xp for killing a monster
- you get xp for doing and recieving damage (in a period of time). A system like in Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. If you do at least 3 x your level of damage over 5 rounds, you get xp. If you recieve damage more than 20% your hp in 5 rounds, you get xp. (numbers just examples.) Monster rating is a multiplier to the damage counter. Easy: x0.5, hard: x2.
That means the longer the fight, the more xp you gain.
- you get xp for skill rolls and saves that were close (miss dc by no more than 5, beat dc by no more than 5). So no xp for skill rolls that are too easy or too hard. Sneaking past an enemy who nearly spotted you would get you xp.
- no party xp for monster fighting. If you contribute to combat (eg do and recieve damage), you get the same xp as everyone else.
- you get half of skill roll and saves xp as party xp, but only if you are in viewing distance (learn by watching).

Ideally, you should get about the same total amount of xp for using skills as for fighting when out adventuring.
xp leeching in party is greatly reduced. If you can't hurt the monsters and can't take a hit, you get no xp.

Oh yes, and no xp penalty for using your familiar or summons in combat. But no xp if your familiar or summon is doing all the work.